<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Recharging Air Conditioner on 1985 Bertone<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001 at 3:08 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Dick Dauksys"); // --> </SCRIPT>Dick Dauksys <NOSCRIPT> Dick Dauksys </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Anyone have any experience with charging air conditioner with R-134 - especially with one of those aftermarket kits such as Interdynamics makes. They have a kit designated RKR-5 which is supposed to be adaptable to a number of different autos, but as usual they don't specify and probably never heard of a Bertone.
Thanks,
Dick D. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Use R-22 instead<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001, 5:35 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Dick: Your car has R-22, not R-134.
It will be better to take it to an AC service center to recharge it with R-22.
They will try to sell you the idea to convert it to R-134, but would not be as good as with the R-22 (it was designed for) The R-22 will be more expensive since the
R-22 is very controlled (Ozone layer) but the system will work much better that way.
Good luck, Gilles<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Tony Natoli"); // --> </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Don't you mean R-12???<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001, 10:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->R-22 is/was used in RESIDENTIAL units... and operates at completely different temps and pressures than R-12.
Just look at any guage set...
R134 is supposed to be completely compatable with R-12... Kinda like using a synthetic motor oil instead of and organic one...
I must admit though... I have NEVER "hot-rodded" an A/C system... so if ya really do mean R-22... I wanna hear more!
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Erwin Timmers"); // --> </SCRIPT>Erwin Timmers <NOSCRIPT> Erwin Timmers </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->not compatible<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 10 2001, 7:17 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I converted my Saab 2 years ago and the instructions said specifically that the oil used with R-12 doesn't mix with R-134a. I had to completely flush the system, replace the drier, all O-rings (R-134a works at higher pressure) and charge ports. Now it works great, except for a slow leak in the compressor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Tony Natoli"); // --> </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hmmmmm....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 10 2001, 7:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Edwin,
I think you have one point there... but fail on another.
Most "kits" supply refrigerant oil and the reason they probably do is because of the incompatability that you stated.
I had my Toyota converted after a compressor failure (triggered by ME thinking MORE refrigerant would be BETTER... which caused a siezure on a cool evening when all the liquid did not evaporate thru the evaporator coils...) and R-134 APPEARED to work just great... in fact for about the next 10 years.
The point you made that appears inconsistant is the temp/pressure differences.
No modifications are made to the compressor or the system (save charging adapters) to increase or change the OPERATING pressures.
That is my primary argument with what Gilles stated... as R-22 works on pressures that are about 70% higher than R-12... if my memory serves me.
Then you stated after changing the refrigerant OIL... all worked well and was compatable...
Your thoughts?
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Erwin Timmers"); // --> </SCRIPT>Erwin Timmers <NOSCRIPT> Erwin Timmers </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->clarification<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 11 2001, 4:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Incompatible oil: mineral oil, as used with R-12, is incompatible with R-134a, and an ester oil should be used if you convert. The old oil will coat the evaporator and reduce heat transfer, so it's best to remove (flush) it. 10% remaining should be OK, however.
Higher pressure: I don't understand the details of the difference, but I was told that R-134a gives higher "head pressures", and so older seals may fail.
I read that some hoses (made for R-12) don't keep R-134a contained. I had no problem with the Saab hoses, however. I did change the O-rings.
Most of my knowledge comes from doing this conversion, so it is quite limited.
Hope this helps -- Erwin
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Tony Natoli"); // --> </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT> Tony Natoli </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->So's mine...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 12 2001, 6:55 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->All I ever did was R-12 on cars, R-22 on homes, R-11 and 113 (which work in full and partial vacuums) in industry.
Never converted or hot-rodded any system before and only have done a few R-134 conversions.
Thanks for the clarification...
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001 at 3:08 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Dick Dauksys"); // --> </SCRIPT>Dick Dauksys <NOSCRIPT> Dick Dauksys </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Anyone have any experience with charging air conditioner with R-134 - especially with one of those aftermarket kits such as Interdynamics makes. They have a kit designated RKR-5 which is supposed to be adaptable to a number of different autos, but as usual they don't specify and probably never heard of a Bertone.
Thanks,
Dick D. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Use R-22 instead<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001, 5:35 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Dick: Your car has R-22, not R-134.
It will be better to take it to an AC service center to recharge it with R-22.
They will try to sell you the idea to convert it to R-134, but would not be as good as with the R-22 (it was designed for) The R-22 will be more expensive since the
R-22 is very controlled (Ozone layer) but the system will work much better that way.
Good luck, Gilles<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Don't you mean R-12???<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 9 2001, 10:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->R-22 is/was used in RESIDENTIAL units... and operates at completely different temps and pressures than R-12.
Just look at any guage set...
R134 is supposed to be completely compatable with R-12... Kinda like using a synthetic motor oil instead of and organic one...
I must admit though... I have NEVER "hot-rodded" an A/C system... so if ya really do mean R-22... I wanna hear more!
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->not compatible<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 10 2001, 7:17 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I converted my Saab 2 years ago and the instructions said specifically that the oil used with R-12 doesn't mix with R-134a. I had to completely flush the system, replace the drier, all O-rings (R-134a works at higher pressure) and charge ports. Now it works great, except for a slow leak in the compressor...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hmmmmm....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 10 2001, 7:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Edwin,
I think you have one point there... but fail on another.
Most "kits" supply refrigerant oil and the reason they probably do is because of the incompatability that you stated.
I had my Toyota converted after a compressor failure (triggered by ME thinking MORE refrigerant would be BETTER... which caused a siezure on a cool evening when all the liquid did not evaporate thru the evaporator coils...) and R-134 APPEARED to work just great... in fact for about the next 10 years.
The point you made that appears inconsistant is the temp/pressure differences.
No modifications are made to the compressor or the system (save charging adapters) to increase or change the OPERATING pressures.
That is my primary argument with what Gilles stated... as R-22 works on pressures that are about 70% higher than R-12... if my memory serves me.
Then you stated after changing the refrigerant OIL... all worked well and was compatable...
Your thoughts?
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 11 2001, 4:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Incompatible oil: mineral oil, as used with R-12, is incompatible with R-134a, and an ester oil should be used if you convert. The old oil will coat the evaporator and reduce heat transfer, so it's best to remove (flush) it. 10% remaining should be OK, however.
Higher pressure: I don't understand the details of the difference, but I was told that R-134a gives higher "head pressures", and so older seals may fail.
I read that some hoses (made for R-12) don't keep R-134a contained. I had no problem with the Saab hoses, however. I did change the O-rings.
Most of my knowledge comes from doing this conversion, so it is quite limited.
Hope this helps -- Erwin
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]July 12 2001, 6:55 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->All I ever did was R-12 on cars, R-22 on homes, R-11 and 113 (which work in full and partial vacuums) in industry.
Never converted or hot-rodded any system before and only have done a few R-134 conversions.
Thanks for the clarification...
Best Regards,
Tony Natoli
Two '79s, WHITE FANG and BLACK TOOTH
Santa Clarita, CA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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