RED X19

kmead said:
The MR2 IC for the supercharged version of the car would work very well, the compressed air could enter just out of the turbo, and with some careful siting exit very nearly into an elbow leading directly into the existing intake of an X.
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That is very similar to what I have, but with a aftermarket IC that's a little bigger than the MR2's. And as you say, it allows for short, direct routing of the pipes.
 
lookforjoe said:
Just referencing another member's experience with air flow through the engine bay:

"Didn’t work. Appearently the hood sucks more air then fresh air blows in."
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If you read his latest post, I believe he was saying the cold air box didn't work. A little different scenario.
However another factor I did not mention is part of the plan includes larger side ducts with much greater openings from them into the bay (as discussed in the "side scoops" thread). Hopefully that will help change the balance of incoming air, allowing more hot air to exit the rear grill opening (also to be added, as described in my earlier post above). The combination will likely lead to a IC air flow of bottom-to-top (fan assisted). Janis made a good point to try both directions (easy to reverse the fan) and see the results.
 
Next chapter

My garage finally will be free from Minis on this weekend and am determined to make X19 look as it deserves, with little influence from previous mods :D
What thickness of alu sheets do You suggest to make hoods of? 0.7mm / 1mm / 1.25mm / 1,5mm / 2mm?
Reinforcement on bottom side will be added alike as on original covers.

Does anyone know much paint is needed for full body? Aluminium covers wont be painted.

P.S. Read today again whole this thread to keep in mind suggestions and mistakes that have done, thanks for participating in this build and also excuse me that often move to next chapter too fast, sometimes even not answering on questions, as I noticed.
 
mkmini said:
What thickness of alu sheets do You suggest to make hoods of? 0.7mm / 1mm / 1.25mm / 1,5mm / 2mm?
Reinforcement on bottom side will be added alike as on original covers.
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With the reinforcement on the bottom, the aluminum does not need to be very thick. If a lot of shaping is planned, the thickness and hardness will make a big difference on how easy it is to work with.


mkmini said:
Does anyone know much paint is needed for full body?
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Depends on the color (compared to the existing color), type of paint, how its applied, etc. For a similar or same color (that does not require several coats to hide the existing color), a non-water based paint (water-born requires more material), and HVLP spray gun application, you could get away with as little as a quart. On the other hand, with a big color difference, water-born paint, high pressure gun, and you intend to wet-sand and buff after, then you might need as much as a gallon. Guess it also depends on how many spills or mistakes happen. Sorry, you will have to convert these to metric quantities. Not a very clear answer, sorry. Maybe ask the paint supplier for advice.
 
Thanks Jeff, I'll better then measure area of Mini for comparing, believe that X will need less paint. Have bad experience with paint supplier's advice.


Also shaping will make extra stiffness to it, without reinforcements I could again fail MOT test. I'll try to find some cutoffs and play with them..
 
The MOT tests puzzle me. They seem to allow some very wild modifications that would effect the car's structure/safety, but not allow many changes that don't seem to really matter. How do they decide what is ok? Is it like the American court system where the actual laws do not matter and the judge can do anything he wants regardless of the facts or rules?
 
For paint, I would guess 2 quarts (equal to 1/2 gallon) should do. That appears to be around 2 liters. Not sure how it is supplied there, so don't know what that equals on the store shelf. But your idea of comparing to the Mini is good.
 
About MOT here:
First and main rule, You are not allowed to make any mods that manufactures has not foreseen*.
With exception for example, If You are willing to make an engine swap , then You can choose only from same manufacturer and have to make a project with load calculations..
*if manufacturer has foreseen rollcage and installed it - it doesn't count, no rollcages for streetcars, take it out or go register it in another coutnry
*there are few mods that has not foreseen by manufacturer but only authorized companies are allowed to do

Sometimes(mostly) I don't get it, is somebody lobbied, or authors of regulations are not enough educated

I have read few time those MOT regulations to fit in them with mods that am going to do, or am going to hide
For example that gorgeous muffler failed, without explanation, because exhaust system is not original, will install dual mufler, because it looks that could be original , although they have no idea that there even turbo must not to be..
Of course all depends on a man who makes a test - human factor, and attitude of client, or they just have to earn more money and fails for worn out knuckle joints (have changed a lot of good joints without play for new ones) most typical habit.

At the end, my last trump is that this Fiat is not X19 it is Fiat Bertone o_O (registered wrongly when imported I assume) - so I practically can do any mods that could be done in 1981, as there is no other "Fiat Bertone" to compare to. Anyway most people here see this car for first time and don't know how it should look no matter how it is registered.

This is annoying, but in same time trains how to cheat smartly
 
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Pretty typical of any governmental regulations I guess.

Due to the age of the cars and how long they had not been in the motor vehicle system, both of my X's had to get new papers made. Back when the '79 was titled/registered, it was listed on the new papers as a "Fiat Convertible". Later when the '85 was done, it was listed as a "Fiat Bertone". Neither mention "X1/9". The department officials did not know what these cars were and just copied what they saw written, even though it wasn't actually written that way on either sets of paper work...not sure exactly how they came up with those titles. So maybe not so different between here and there?
 
I felt better before, believing that have the only “Bertone” :D
..It seems very similar as here.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
If you read his latest post, I believe he was saying the cold air box didn't work. A little different scenario..
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Not really - his point was that hot air exiting the bay was sucked back in the filter, which was being fed through the engine cover.

Regulations here vary from state to state. Definitely no Federal guidelines that are imposed across the board. Even within a state, requirements can be different from one county to another.
 
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Should I make straight exits to the sides of car or put corners that exits to the rear? I vote for straight hahah

*edit
I’m considering to make mounting for this muffler that mounts on original mount behind gearbox. I would like to do so, because could avoid “elastic exhaust part” and won’t need to make mounts to chassis.
 
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Nice looking muffler, interesting design with the single inlet in the middle. I'd have to see how the side exits look to decide...hard to picture that. Guess it depends on exactly where its located and how its done.

I'm waiting for someone to tell you those 'zip-ties' (cable ties) will melt when you drive it mounted that way. :D
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Nice looking muffler, interesting design with the single inlet in the middle. I'd have to see how the side exits look to decide...hard to picture that. Guess it depends on exactly where its located and how its done.

I'm waiting for someone to tell you those 'zip-ties' (cable ties) will melt when you drive it mounted that way. :D
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Edited my previous post, while You was typing .

Side exits would be right behind wheels, would have to make holes in chassis for them, what is a bonus :D
 
Maybe compromise with a 45 degree from the muffler sides to the corners of body work? In between the rear and side exit locations.
Do one of your excellent quick drawings to show me what you are thinking.
 
Speaking of exhaust design for the UT system.

I did a quick mock-up of the turbo on my 1500 SOHC and thought about how to make the exhaust. Not sure if it is the same for Euro models like yours, but here there is a hole in the vertical panel just below the trunk and above the rear cross-member (the one where the suspension arms mount). The stock exhaust travels through the hole before bending around in the area where your muffler is sitting. On the later model there is actually two of these holes, one on either side of the vertical panel.

Looking at it, that panel is a thin sheet-metal filler to separate the engine bay and the rear lower area. So I made some quick cuts and removed the panel, leaving a good opening above that cross-member. Now I can route the exhaust from the turbo through the opening (where the panel was removed) into the rear area for the muffler. This prevents having to go under the cross-member, with the loss of ground clearance (I will be lowering the car significantly). And it allows a simpler design from the turbo out the back. I'll try to get a picture later to show the area.
 
I will reply ~7 hours, have to wake up after 4hours haha and have to do few things before
 
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Original exhaust was like this, don’t have it anymore, but believe that it was unmodified, except that big tailpipe

•45* would need more work than 90* and straight together
•90* is easiest
•with straight ones would need to make holes on sides, also those pockets would need to be utilized, what is not bad at all- less weight,
•and in previous point I got answer, thanks , 90* would need shorter pipes, less weight. As my goal was and still is to get better power/weight ratio than my last bmw e30.

Don’t know have You got original manifold(between turbo and exhaust), original one makes harder to route it above crossmember, also going above it, it needs 3 bends more than going below. Ground clearence of exhaust system going below crossmember will be in same level as lowest point of jacking point on that crossmember where bellhouse is attached. Routed between gearbox’s crossmember and right side’s suspensions arm mount. Clearance isn’t an obstacle.
In my case it’s way complicated to route it above and keep it in same position as in pictures, positioning it in a different angle looks wrong or even goes out of “dimensions”.

Does muffler that is attached to gearbox mount affects bad to it, or those extra few kg isn’t so important compared to weight of the engine?
 
That was a short 7 hours of sleep.

90 degree will likely look best also. More traditional and twin (2) outlets is a very good design.

About the muffler mount off the gearbox. I guess it depends on the weight of your new exhaust, how the rest of it is mounted/supported, and if the stock mount arm fits correctly to the new design. I do not plan to use mine, but my exhaust will be very simple; turbo makes an excellent muffler already so only going to use small resonator and chrome tip, straight from downpipe to rear panel of car.

Pictures below are the panel I am talking about and where I cut it out (on other car). For the turbo I am making a custom downpipe that attaches directly to the exhaust housing (of turbo), and not using a stock 90 degree piece. So it is easy to route from turbo through this panel.

Stock '85:
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Where I cut it (in blue area):
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The new downpipe will come down from turbo and line up in center of the opening I made (blue area). So the tip will be in the middle of the rear panel, where "grill" normally goes. Plenty of other work to get done first though.
 
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