///Mike
'76 & '85
This would be a great looking car, even without the extra feature: http://www.doubletroublehotrod.com/
///Mike
///Mike
Right up Tony's alley *HRC* (Hot Rod Content)
- Thread starter ///Mike
- Start date
///Mike
'76 & '85
What I wanna know is how they synchronized (synchonised for you Dave) the engines and combined the outputs. I didn't look into it much at all but I didn't see that covered. Looked like an auto trans in the video, didn't it??
Puts me in the mind of a twin engine Honda I saw way back when, where an additional driveline was fitted to the back end of a FWD car. In that one they claimed the outputs were similar enough that synchroniz(s)ation was unnecessary. But in both cases I expect they're more novelty cars than something used even for just fun runs.
Still a great looking car though. Leave it to those folks hanging upside down on the bottom of the planet to show the way.
Cheers,
///Mike
Puts me in the mind of a twin engine Honda I saw way back when, where an additional driveline was fitted to the back end of a FWD car. In that one they claimed the outputs were similar enough that synchroniz(s)ation was unnecessary. But in both cases I expect they're more novelty cars than something used even for just fun runs.
Still a great looking car though. Leave it to those folks hanging upside down on the bottom of the planet to show the way.
Cheers,
///Mike
ianlawson
ian - NZ
'Ere, ere, ya Pommy git..............!
...'oo do ya fink yur callin' loonies, ay???
Jus' coz sum of us were born on sheep farms, and had sheep as our bes' frenz at skool, dun't mean to say we're loonies, duz it?? :nuts:
Oi rekn sum of yur Pommy oiks are loonyer than us!!
Wot about that Richard twerp from Top Gear - goze for a spin in a drag racer, then felt like havin' a poo half way down the trak when he woz doin' 200 mph, an' tryed to open the door to let out the pong!! :mallet:
Now that's a reel loony, Pottsy lad!!
cheers, Ian - Lunesville, NZ
...'oo do ya fink yur callin' loonies, ay???
Jus' coz sum of us were born on sheep farms, and had sheep as our bes' frenz at skool, dun't mean to say we're loonies, duz it?? :nuts:
Oi rekn sum of yur Pommy oiks are loonyer than us!!
Wot about that Richard twerp from Top Gear - goze for a spin in a drag racer, then felt like havin' a poo half way down the trak when he woz doin' 200 mph, an' tryed to open the door to let out the pong!! :mallet:
Now that's a reel loony, Pottsy lad!!
cheers, Ian - Lunesville, NZ
9151
Pottsy
///Mike
He's used twin high tech belts running off the main crank dampers to a common pulley attached to the 'box's input shaft. Hence my comment regarding the blowers as just one engine running on the shaft would likely cause torque reversal effects enough to result in catastrophic fluid drive failure.
Ever seen a multi-engine tractor pull when just one blown engine lets go?
He's used twin high tech belts running off the main crank dampers to a common pulley attached to the 'box's input shaft. Hence my comment regarding the blowers as just one engine running on the shaft would likely cause torque reversal effects enough to result in catastrophic fluid drive failure.
Ever seen a multi-engine tractor pull when just one blown engine lets go?
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
HAHAHA... Well... it idles well!
Thanks for posting ///Mike! Crazy stuff!
Here is the FIRST double engine car I ever saw on the street back in 1968.
http://www.tachrev.com/PetersenPg15.htm#Pete82JPG
LICENSED in California... Bob went on to win AMBR in '67 and '68 with this car... but what impressed me most was seeing him climb aboard, start EACH engine ONE AT A TIME... click the dual GM Turbo 350 transmissions into gear, then pull out into traffic from the Hollywood Bowl onto Highland Ave.
He then BLIPPED the throttle and was GONE... I never say him again!
That is not until 1999 at the Sacramento Autorama! Now showing at the Peterson on Wilshire... but I'd really like to see it on Highland Ave. again!
Thanks for posting ///Mike! Crazy stuff!
Here is the FIRST double engine car I ever saw on the street back in 1968.
http://www.tachrev.com/PetersenPg15.htm#Pete82JPG
LICENSED in California... Bob went on to win AMBR in '67 and '68 with this car... but what impressed me most was seeing him climb aboard, start EACH engine ONE AT A TIME... click the dual GM Turbo 350 transmissions into gear, then pull out into traffic from the Hollywood Bowl onto Highland Ave.
He then BLIPPED the throttle and was GONE... I never say him again!
That is not until 1999 at the Sacramento Autorama! Now showing at the Peterson on Wilshire... but I'd really like to see it on Highland Ave. again!
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
///Mike... More info here on the Invader...
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/pontiac_invader_custom_roadster/photo_09.html
Please note the License Plate and dual Jaguar rear differentials.
HA!
Lots of times the tag is ripped off Mom's station wagon for the day's run but this car always had this tag... I have no idea what it was "officially" registered as... possibly even a '66 Pontiac or something. I remember back in those days there were "friends" that worked at the DMV that took care of theses issues!
On to the synchronization aspects...
On to this particular case, I don't believe there was any, really. As noted in the previous articles there are TWO three-speed automatic transmissions that are directly tied to each engine... and they only come together with a "half-shaft" (1/3 shaft?) that ties both differentials together.
There is some speculation as to just HOW well the differentials work or if they are indeed effective or "working" at all. I would love to have seen the internals and also to see him LIGHT THEM UP under power. HA... Like I said.. when I saw him drive away that day... he was just GONE!
Enjoy...
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/pontiac_invader_custom_roadster/photo_09.html
Please note the License Plate and dual Jaguar rear differentials.
HA!
Lots of times the tag is ripped off Mom's station wagon for the day's run but this car always had this tag... I have no idea what it was "officially" registered as... possibly even a '66 Pontiac or something. I remember back in those days there were "friends" that worked at the DMV that took care of theses issues!
On to the synchronization aspects...
On to this particular case, I don't believe there was any, really. As noted in the previous articles there are TWO three-speed automatic transmissions that are directly tied to each engine... and they only come together with a "half-shaft" (1/3 shaft?) that ties both differentials together.
There is some speculation as to just HOW well the differentials work or if they are indeed effective or "working" at all. I would love to have seen the internals and also to see him LIGHT THEM UP under power. HA... Like I said.. when I saw him drive away that day... he was just GONE!
Enjoy...
///Mike
'76 & '85
Way cool. I remember that car. Well, actually I remember the Hot Wheels version-- I'm not *that* old. ;-)
Cool to see pics of the real thing. I suppose between the torque converters and differentials the engines at least wouldn't be fighting one another. But I can surely see Dave's point with regard to the more recent car. Maybe that's why the driver is not romping on it in the video?
I guess it's true what they say-- everything old really is new again.
Cheers,
///Mike
Cool to see pics of the real thing. I suppose between the torque converters and differentials the engines at least wouldn't be fighting one another. But I can surely see Dave's point with regard to the more recent car. Maybe that's why the driver is not romping on it in the video?
I guess it's true what they say-- everything old really is new again.
Cheers,
///Mike
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
HA... I have always been fascinated with...
... multiple engined cars... and yes... I also believe the Invader probably had the "easiest" time of most of these as the turbo-hydros and torque converters eased the connection between the two engines.
The more successful multi-engined cars were ones that had engineers attempt to make the TWO into effectively ONE. The latest I've seen is a V-16 Chevy "smallblock" where the block, heads and crank were machined and welded together to work and LOOK like one long engine.
But probably one of the most "successful" on the track (strip in this case) was TV Tommy Ivo's 4 engined Buick Dragster. Probably one of the LEAST successful was Tex Collin's 4 engined ALLISON powered FIAT Altered... (I'll let ya google those for yurself...)
Both of these made "statements"... but it seems they never could get beyond the extra weight they carry.
As for the Invader and this latest car... well, I agree, this latest ride, the guy is being very careful with it... as it does appear a bit scary and wary. Comparing it to the Invader... makes the Invader appear to be quite controllable and even somewhat "reasonable" in its execution... if that's at all possible!
Thanks for the chat and the memories... Oh... I had a Monogram Model Kit of the Invader back in the day... felt a bit weird as an adult building it... which I still had it today. Probably worth a fortune and Mongram kits were extremely accurate and detailed as compared to Revell and the AMT's I believe the Mattel folks took them over...
I think Ima gonna haveta get me one on those Invader Hot Wheels though... now that YOU brought it up! HA!
... multiple engined cars... and yes... I also believe the Invader probably had the "easiest" time of most of these as the turbo-hydros and torque converters eased the connection between the two engines.
The more successful multi-engined cars were ones that had engineers attempt to make the TWO into effectively ONE. The latest I've seen is a V-16 Chevy "smallblock" where the block, heads and crank were machined and welded together to work and LOOK like one long engine.
But probably one of the most "successful" on the track (strip in this case) was TV Tommy Ivo's 4 engined Buick Dragster. Probably one of the LEAST successful was Tex Collin's 4 engined ALLISON powered FIAT Altered... (I'll let ya google those for yurself...)
Both of these made "statements"... but it seems they never could get beyond the extra weight they carry.
As for the Invader and this latest car... well, I agree, this latest ride, the guy is being very careful with it... as it does appear a bit scary and wary. Comparing it to the Invader... makes the Invader appear to be quite controllable and even somewhat "reasonable" in its execution... if that's at all possible!
Thanks for the chat and the memories... Oh... I had a Monogram Model Kit of the Invader back in the day... felt a bit weird as an adult building it... which I still had it today. Probably worth a fortune and Mongram kits were extremely accurate and detailed as compared to Revell and the AMT's I believe the Mattel folks took them over...
I think Ima gonna haveta get me one on those Invader Hot Wheels though... now that YOU brought it up! HA!
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
It's just YOU Tom...
... and if I haveta Xplain it to ya it'll just make ya feel bad and embarrass ya. HA!
If you truly want some FIAT-LESS or FIAT-PEOPLE-LESS content... I cordially invite you to the NFC forum we have here. I sometimes make that mistake and go there myself.
Otherwise... feel free to ENJOY the miscellaneous ramblings of the X1/9 FIAT people here that seem to ENJOY each other a bit, in and around their particular cars. Sure seems "fitting" to me... HA!
... and if I haveta Xplain it to ya it'll just make ya feel bad and embarrass ya. HA!
If you truly want some FIAT-LESS or FIAT-PEOPLE-LESS content... I cordially invite you to the NFC forum we have here. I sometimes make that mistake and go there myself.
Otherwise... feel free to ENJOY the miscellaneous ramblings of the X1/9 FIAT people here that seem to ENJOY each other a bit, in and around their particular cars. Sure seems "fitting" to me... HA!
bb4re
86X 22,000 miles
That's okay, Tony...
...It just seems like if anyone in general posts items in the Discussion forum that aren't FIAT related, they get scolded and the thread is transferred to the NFC area. I have seen it MANY a time, over the years. I guess it is now appropriate to start posting anything and everything in this Discussion area? What relevance do hot rods and twin engine cars that aren't related to Fiats have here, really?
Perhaps I won't be embarassed. Didn't see anything close to being Fiat related in that post...so I guess I don't see what you are getting at? Please enighten me.
Don't mean to be a jerk, but your little comment about "embarassing me and making me feel bad" comes off a tad...well...inappropriate, considering how many threads have been pushed from Discussion due to not having any Fiat content over the years.
Just trying to get an idea of what is okay, and what may not be appropriate for this tab these days. Maybe everything is fair game these days? If so, let's eliminate the NFC tab already.
Discussion Forum "X1/9 General": People, cars, history, stuff, tall tales, good times
NFC Forum "Non-Fiat Content": Off-topic area, other cars, hobbies, interests
...It just seems like if anyone in general posts items in the Discussion forum that aren't FIAT related, they get scolded and the thread is transferred to the NFC area. I have seen it MANY a time, over the years. I guess it is now appropriate to start posting anything and everything in this Discussion area? What relevance do hot rods and twin engine cars that aren't related to Fiats have here, really?
Perhaps I won't be embarassed. Didn't see anything close to being Fiat related in that post...so I guess I don't see what you are getting at? Please enighten me.
Don't mean to be a jerk, but your little comment about "embarassing me and making me feel bad" comes off a tad...well...inappropriate, considering how many threads have been pushed from Discussion due to not having any Fiat content over the years.
Just trying to get an idea of what is okay, and what may not be appropriate for this tab these days. Maybe everything is fair game these days? If so, let's eliminate the NFC tab already.
Discussion Forum "X1/9 General": People, cars, history, stuff, tall tales, good times
NFC Forum "Non-Fiat Content": Off-topic area, other cars, hobbies, interests
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///Mike
'76 & '85
Well said, Tony. I did not reply to that inappropriate post because I would not have been nearly as generous in my response as you were. And this place used to be very much about generosity, of both knowledge and spirit. So I think I'll just stop right there 'cause self-appointed forum nannies kinda deplete my reserves of patience and generosity.
Cheers,
///Mike
PS: I actually remember the 4 engined Buick powered drag car (from books, anyway) but not the Allison powered one. Fun cruise down memory lane, despite the speed bumps...
Let's try to remain civil here.
Yes this was a fairly off-topic thread, but we do allow plenty of latitude in General Discussion as long as it's automotive. It is ok to question where the bar is once in a while, but let's remain polite. Remember - it's the internet and emotions are often misread.
Yes this was a fairly off-topic thread, but we do allow plenty of latitude in General Discussion as long as it's automotive. It is ok to question where the bar is once in a while, but let's remain polite. Remember - it's the internet and emotions are often misread.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Hey Tom... I thought I could push ya around a little...
... Sorry if I assumed too much with you.
I go along with what you posted here...
Discussion Forum "X1/9 General": People, cars, history, stuff, tall tales, good times, NFC Forum "Non-Fiat Content": Off-topic area, other cars, hobbies, interests .
I was also once a proponent of not only eliminating the NFC section, but all separate sections altogether. I thought it was BETTER that we had ONE forum that all could view all the ramblings, needs, and car trouble issues.
As this place has grown so large... I now do see the need to separate things somewhat as it actually kinda helps, especially with the FS&W sections. I also feel now that the NFC section does a damn good job of containing those that wish to get into the deep stuff and political ramblings.
Its the DF section I always go to first though... and non-fiat stuff like the flooding in Australia and the like are things I am also most interested in... as even though I've never met some of these guys, they still feel like family after 10 or 12 years. Herzel and rockets from Gaza was another biggie...
You are correct technically... but I think this section is the place where its appropriate to be a little more looser with the "rules", especially if its civil.
As for Hot Rods and Twin Engines and Fiats... I may have swayed a bit...but I did indeed mention "Quad Al"... pictured here:
I think "he" fills ALL those categories... HA! If interested, read more about "him" here...
http://www.dragracingonline.com/nowthen/viii_8-1.html
Old Tex Collins built the body and chassis for my first Hot Rod... pictured here. This is me at 18 with hair.
... Sorry if I assumed too much with you.
I go along with what you posted here...
Discussion Forum "X1/9 General": People, cars, history, stuff, tall tales, good times, NFC Forum "Non-Fiat Content": Off-topic area, other cars, hobbies, interests .
I was also once a proponent of not only eliminating the NFC section, but all separate sections altogether. I thought it was BETTER that we had ONE forum that all could view all the ramblings, needs, and car trouble issues.
As this place has grown so large... I now do see the need to separate things somewhat as it actually kinda helps, especially with the FS&W sections. I also feel now that the NFC section does a damn good job of containing those that wish to get into the deep stuff and political ramblings.
Its the DF section I always go to first though... and non-fiat stuff like the flooding in Australia and the like are things I am also most interested in... as even though I've never met some of these guys, they still feel like family after 10 or 12 years. Herzel and rockets from Gaza was another biggie...
You are correct technically... but I think this section is the place where its appropriate to be a little more looser with the "rules", especially if its civil.
As for Hot Rods and Twin Engines and Fiats... I may have swayed a bit...but I did indeed mention "Quad Al"... pictured here:
I think "he" fills ALL those categories... HA! If interested, read more about "him" here...
http://www.dragracingonline.com/nowthen/viii_8-1.html
Old Tex Collins built the body and chassis for my first Hot Rod... pictured here. This is me at 18 with hair.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Dittos Tom...
Sorry again...
But anyone that modifies their cars is indeed a "rodder" in some respects. "Tuner's" are basically the rodders of today... modding what they were given to play with.
I'm afraid YOU are actually no different... yur just playin' with what you have handy!
HEY... and I believe WE all deserve to see what kinda progress you're making with your ride... Send fotos!
Sorry again...
But anyone that modifies their cars is indeed a "rodder" in some respects. "Tuner's" are basically the rodders of today... modding what they were given to play with.
I'm afraid YOU are actually no different... yur just playin' with what you have handy!
HEY... and I believe WE all deserve to see what kinda progress you're making with your ride... Send fotos!
Do 850's Qualify
I am building an 850 Spider and was not too sure if I should include it on this site. So I added some X19 bits, ie: Wheel Flares, Front Spoiler and grill, 74' rear vent sheet metal, Marker Lights, Steering column and steering wheel, Seats, Emergency Brake Handle. Don't know how much X19 stuff I need to add to qualify.
Also, It has a 'Racer' top with roadster side glass. Kinda looks like a mini Datsun 240-Z.
Wayne
I am building an 850 Spider and was not too sure if I should include it on this site. So I added some X19 bits, ie: Wheel Flares, Front Spoiler and grill, 74' rear vent sheet metal, Marker Lights, Steering column and steering wheel, Seats, Emergency Brake Handle. Don't know how much X19 stuff I need to add to qualify.
Also, It has a 'Racer' top with roadster side glass. Kinda looks like a mini Datsun 240-Z.
Wayne