Rusted Out 1970 850 Spider Fix-Up

Lights are all hooked up, but my efforts to get it running are not meeting with success. Timing marks are not lining up with TDC, so I am thinking I might have jumped time. The car has less than 50k miles on it (but who knows about the engine). Did FIAT use nylon gears? Looks like the replacements are metal. I would like to hear from anyone who has had issues with their timing chain. It has had issues since it sucked that washer…maybe they are somehow related? Washer interference caused something to stress out? Thoughts? Ideas? Drinks? Snacks?

And of course now I will get to disconnect all my lights again in the back!
 
That nut is indeed 32mm. Use an impact wrench when removing unless you have a way to keep the engine from turning.
So here is the chain. The alignment marks look perfect.
ABE96DA3-E3D4-43FE-B33C-ED6AF730086B.jpeg


Let’s look a little closer.
6A4A8F85-7F49-4943-B9FB-4F80EEB7A8FB.jpeg

Whoopsie! Looks like I am missing part of the woodruff key. Which means, and correct me if I am wrong Fiat experts, that my pulley and oil cover were basically just kind of freewheeling on the crank, making timing impossible with the mark. Time to order parts.
 
Daniel Gibson said:
That nut is indeed 32mm. Use an impact wrench when removing unless you have a way to keep the engine from turning.
So here is the chain. The alignment marks look perfect.
View attachment 54431

Let’s look a little closer.
View attachment 54432
Whoopsie! Looks like I am missing part of the woodruff key. Which means, and correct me if I am wrong Fiat experts, that my pulley and oil cover were basically just kind of freewheeling on the crank, making timing impossible with the mark. Time to order parts.
Click to expand...

When this happens it's usually going to continue to happen because the crank pulley slot for the key gets buggered up. Check the condition of the pulley slot.
 
Timing chain back on, engine all back together, and it is still not running. Timing checks out, spark looks good, so that leads me to the next likely culprit…the DIC! If I pour gas in it, it is trying to run, so it is time to see if it is all clogged up. Taking the top off leads me to believe that this is indeed the case. It will run…sooner or later.
Onto better news.. the chrome is back, and man does it look nice and shiny. Didn’t have time to do much with it today, but I did put the gas cap back on. Not a very good “before” pic, but you get the idea.
99748967-B05D-45B1-B349-A6D876C5C95C.png

Oh, and if anyone ever asks you, taking out and pressure washing jeep carpets is not as much fun as it promises to be.
 
Daniel Gibson said:
Timing chain back on, engine all back together, and it is still not running.
Click to expand...

Daniel, I think the cables on your ignition coil (photo #882) are connected incorrectly?
The cable must first be connected to the resistor on the left, then right from the resistor on the right side of the ignition coil.
On the left side of the ignition coil comes the cable for the rev counter and the cable that goes to the distributor.
 
Jörg said:
Daniel, I think the cables on your ignition coil (photo #882) are connected incorrectly?
The cable must first be connected to the resistor on the left, then right from the resistor on the right side of the ignition coil.
On the left side of the ignition coil comes the cable for the rev counter and the cable that goes to the distributor.
Click to expand...
So, I figured I needed to double check! The wiring diagram I have shows the blue/black wires going to the positive terminal of the coil, and the negative side going to the distributor via the resistor. This is what I have currently. The car HAD been running fine, but is now grumpy. Does anyone know what the resistance on that ballast resistor is supposed to be?
 
In my opinion, the way you have it wired, it can not work permanently?
The current must first pass through the resistor, so that the current is attenuated to about 9V, and then into the ignition coil.
From there to the distributor. Not from the resistor to the distributor.
I suspect that is why the ignition coil was overloaded and is now defective perhaps?

(sorry, I don't know if my english is understood?)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
A coil designed for an external ballast resistor will not last very long without it as it will be dissipating much more power than it was designed for. The ballast resistor reduces both the current and the voltage across the primary. One advantage of an external ballast coil is that it runs cooler than one with an internal ballast.
 
Jörg said:
In my opinion, the way you have it wired, it can not work permanently?
The current must first pass through the resistor, so that the current is attenuated to about 9V, and then into the ignition coil.
From there to the distributor. Not from the resistor to the distributor.
I suspect that is why the ignition coil was overloaded and is now defective perhaps?

(sorry, I don't know if my english is understood?)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Click to expand...
Well, it appears to be wired like the manual shows. The resistor is there mainly to keep the points from frying. I learned that the hard way (not on this car) and that is what this is wired to do. Having said that, please show me the wiring diagram that shows this wrong. I am more than willing to say, “hey, this is messed up!”. Remember, it had been running fine with this wiring before something started giving me grief. I have checked the spark, and it is good and strong. Still scratching my head over this one.
 
The ballast resistor and the coil primary should be in series with one end connected to +12V and the other end connected to the points (There should be a capacitor in parallel with the points). The order of the resistor and coil primary should not matter much so it is quite possible that your wiring does not match how the factory did it but it still runs fine.

The capacitor is there to keep the points from frying and also to provide the correct primary voltage waveform when the points open. The resistor limits the current to keep the coil from burning up but the other side effect is that with the points operating at a lower current, they will last longer.
 
the way you have wired the resistor is without function. This means that the ignition coil gets the full voltage of 12 - 14V. This is too much for an ignition coil that needs a resistor.
The blue and black cable must go to the left(front) side of the resistor, and the short red cable to the (rear)right side of the resistor From there to the ignition coil, where the blue and black cable is now. On the other side of the ignition coil (not the resistor) is the cable that goes to the distributor.

You can also use an ignition coil that does not need a resistor. With 3 - 3.5 Ohm primary resistance.
The coils that need a resistor have 1.5-2 Ohm primary resistance.
The Marelli Resistor has 1,5 Ohm.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
Jörg said:
the way you have wired the resistor is without function. This means that the ignition coil gets the full voltage of 12 - 14V. This is too much for an ignition coil that needs a resistor.
Click to expand...
As Don (@dllubin) noted, the ballast resistor will work on either side of the coil primary. It is there to limit current, not to reduce voltage. Also, the voltage the coil "sees" is the difference between coil positive and coil negative, not the difference between coil positive and ground.

With the points closed and the coil charging, there two circuits are equivalent. With the points open, there are some subtle differences.

Unless, of course, I misunderstood and the ballast resistor isn't connected in either of the two locations shown below.

Coil.png
 
FINALLY got it running again today! It was indeed bad gas, which is surprising as it was not that old. Two months maybe? The car threw me a lot of red herrings which I chased down into dead end alleys. However, I did make some things better which were marginal before. Now I can put the chrome together snd pimp my ride!
 
Daniel Gibson said:
So, I figured I needed to double check! The wiring diagram I have shows the blue/black wires going to the positive terminal of the coil, and the negative side going to the distributor via the resistor. This is what I have currently. The car HAD been running fine, but is now grumpy. Does anyone know what the resistance on that ballast resistor is supposed to be?
Click to expand...
I seem to recall someone mistaking an X on the coil as signifying "positive."
 
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