Should I upgrade my ignition?

[FiatFunk]

Hey guys getting close to firing up my engine, thinking about ignition. It's a carbed 1980, must be a Bosch distributor, I don't see Bosch anywhere on it but do see made in Germany.

Engine is now 11.3:1 CR, Vicks 42/85 cam, 2 DCNF 36's, headers. I'd probably benefit (might even be necessary?) to improve the ignition system.
What would you guys recommend for plugs, coil, diz...
Should I go with MSD? Do you think it is safe to fire up with the stock ignition? Just added an AFR meter yesterday which should be a big help with peace of mind and tuning (still have to make a mount for for it)
Thanks again! I couldn't do this without you guys

 

[kmead]

Personally I would start with the OE system. The carb version of the distributor has a different curve than the FI version of it.

What you have would be fine for your set up. Certainly for startup.

 

[dllubin]

The carb Bosch distributor is probably fine for startup but if you are serious about optimizing the engine you will probably want to get it recurved. The Bosch FI distributor curve is much closer to where you want to be. The MSD capacitive discharge units will provide more spark, particularly at high rpm (probably better at low temperature and low battery as well). The stock Bosch box is really just a Kettering style ignition with the points replaced by electronics. That could make it a little better than one using points in terms of maintenance and eliminating point float at high rpm although I have not experienced that on my Ducelier distributor even above 8K.

 

[Rupunzell]

Start with the stock Bosch EI...

That Bosch distributor is directly compatible with aftermarket EI units like the MSD.. they work good and can be done later.
Be aware, once upgraded to a high energy EI unit like MSD, the stock rotor with built in resistor will slow to rapidly cook. Use a non resistor rotor or bypass the resistor with a wire or copper tape.

Use only genuine Bosch cap/rotor and related ignition parts. Those common lower cost ignition parts do not work or do not work for long.

Bernice

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I agree with Don and Bernice, the stock Bosch electronic ("FI") distributor will provide a better advance curve than the earlier non-electronic ("carb") distributor you have. With some testing, and your wideband O2, you might even add a little more advance by mounting the non-air-pump 'carb' style vacuum advance module onto the FI dizzy (you probibly already have that vac adv on your old unit). Plus the FI dizzy utilizes a much better triggering design (no points). And it can also be connected to a GM style ignition module very easily (direct application) for the improved benefits that offers over the stock Bosch ignition box/module. Very low cost system with very dependable high performance that will suit your engine well.

 

[kmead]

I agree with Don and Bernice, the stock Bosch electronic ("FI") distributor will provide a better advance curve than the earlier non-electronic ("carb") distributor you have. With some testing, and your wideband O2, you might even add a little more advance by mounting the non-air-pump 'carb' style vacuum advance module onto the FI dizzy (you probibly already have that vac adv on your old unit). Plus the FI dizzy utilizes a much better triggering design (no points). And it can also be connected to a GM style ignition module very easily (direct application) for the improved benefits that offers over the stock Bosch ignition box/module. Very low cost system with very dependable high performance that will suit your engine well.

Same basic distributor carb or FI aside from the advance curve

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Same basic distributor carb or FI aside from the advance curve

Apology, I was assuming the "carb" distributor being discussed was a 1300 (through '78) with 'points' trigger. I missed the part about him having a '80 carb model....sorry.

So you are correct for his distributor, it's the same as the later FI units other than the advance curve. Therefore not as much advantage going to a FI dizzy as it would have been if this were a 1300 carb dizzy.

However I do feel a more aggressive ignition timing curve would be a benefit. Particularly if the wideband O2 allows correct jetting across the RPM range and various load conditions (and that might be a big "if"). Otherwise the added advancement might lead to detonation if the AFRs aren't in check at all times.

I also feel the GM ignition module mod is worth doing in place of the Bosch spark box.

This has got me thinking though. Frankly I've never considered the suggestion I made earlier - putting a '79-80 carb vacuum advance module on a FI dizzy to gain a more progressive advancement curve. If I ever get around to building the "Outlaw X", with bike carbs, nitrous, and ANSA header, then I will experiment with the vacuum can swap.

 

[kmead]

Apology, I was assuming the "carb" distributor being discussed was a 1300 (through '78) with 'points' trigger. I missed the part about him having a '80 carb model....sorry.

So you are correct for his distributor, it's the same as the later FI units other than the advance curve. Therefore not as much advantage going to a FI dizzy as it would have been if this were a 1300 carb dizzy.

However I do feel a more aggressive ignition timing curve would be a benefit. Particularly if the wideband O2 allows correct jetting across the RPM range and various load conditions (and that might be a big "if"). Otherwise the added advancement might lead to detonation if the AFRs aren't in check at all times.

I also feel the GM ignition module mod is worth doing in place of the Bosch spark box.

This has got me thinking though. Frankly I've never considered the suggestion I made earlier - putting a '79-80 carb vacuum advance module on a FI dizzy to gain a more progressive advancement curve. If I ever get around to building the "Outlaw X", with bike carbs, nitrous, and ANSA header, then I will experiment with the vacuum can swap.

I would agree. Just pointed out a minor misunderstanding, I make them all the time…unfortunately.

 

[dllubin]

All the X carbed distributors are optimized to make the emission controls work as designed, not for performance. For performance you'd probably want full advance in the low 3K range, not above 5K. Putting in weaker springs can address that issue. The other issue is that these carbed distributors may have much more total centrifugal advance than you want in order to get the timing you want at idle and at max advance (I only needed about 10 - 12 degrees). On the 1300s, much of that advance was used to compensate for the vacuum retard emission control. On those distributors it is pretty easy to install a stop that limits the centrifugal advance range. I have not looked into recurving the Bosch carb distributor that came with my 79 1500 yet but the same principles should apply. Until then, my 1500 is using a recurved Dulcelier distributor with points.

 

[docpan]

I had my distributor recurve and run the gm ignition module. Runs great no vacuum advance