Starter teardown

jvandyke

jvandyke

True Classic
I tore my '81's starter down. For fun. I'm not very experienced but the solenoid "looks" okay. The brushes look totally shot and the commuter (where the brushes ride, correct word?) is worn down to flush. I seem to remember a minimum amount of clearance necessary here. I think you "can" cut down the section in between the metal to restore it, get new brushes, clean up and good to go.....but it probably isn't worth it? I am more prone to get a reman....ya think? see pictures here
http://gallery.me.com/jvandyke#100330&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=13
 
If you have a lathe

Put the armature in the lathe and use a flat file to dress the contacts where the brushes meet. After, gGo over that with a fine (like 480 grit) sandpaper to ensure smoothness for the brushes. Replace the brushes if you can, but if they have lots of live in them. flatten the surface (again) with your flat file so there are no rolling edges, the re-assemble. Should run like new again.
 
Salvageable you think then? The brushes are gone to nothing, one set is not hardly contacting and spring push is used up, it needs new. Now I'm the first to find the cheap way out and love to resurrect stuff but I'm not sure I can pull this off and have a good starter for years of reliable use. I'm more likely to get a new one. I doubt I'll find brushes anyway...still if it's common to revamp these on your own, I'll try, worst case scenario, I waste some time and the cost of some brushes (which I can scavenge and keep "just in case" should I fail and use the thing as a core).
 
You NEED good brushes

I wouldn't discard a good starter over a set of brushes, especially if the armature is good. (can't fix those!)
Check with Chris Obert or Matt Brannon for a set, see what they've got first.
But don't re-assemble it if you already know the brushes are toast.
 
Bosch or the M thing?

What is correct starter for an '81? Bosch or the Morelli (that's not right I know but the other M one?).
I took off an M one and seem to find more Bosch references.
I want to order brushes and bushing and such but would just as soon order the right parts.

Marelli I guess it is.
 
STOP GUESSING...

... and always LISSEN TO BOB!

Unless there is a short in the windings, your starter is REBUILDABLE as is!

You don't need a lathe... spin in a drill and use emory paper to turn down the comutator. Then separate the copper conacts with a Dremel tool and a thin cut-off disk.

For the solenoid... turn the BOLTS 180 degrees, and flip the contactor or clean it up. Basically all NEW surfaces.

Wash up, clean up and paint... test on bench FIRST before reinstalling.

As for the purchase of a rebuilt, brand name is NOT significant... but the number of teeth on the drive is! Make sure it is for a 1500 flywheel and bench test it FIRST before installing.

If ya don't wanna rebuild the old one... ship it to me, I'll pay for shipping!
 
I intend to rebuild, if I can find brushes. I'm pretty sure that is the major issue here. One set will not move in their mounts. They are trashed and won't slide. I will hit a well stocked hardware store tonight yet, or order from here;
http://www.autosupplyco.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1981-FIAT-X1/9-L4--1498cc--1.5l--F/i--Vin--13--a1.040.5&yearid=1981%40%401981&makeid=27%40%40FIAT%40%40&modelid=5777%40%40X1%2F9&engineid=11491**L4%2D1498cc+1%2E5L+F%2FI+Vin+132A1%2E040%2E5**11491&catid=3**Electrical&subcatid=51**Starter+Parts&mode=PA
 
No brushes anymore at hardware store.
Maybe I don't need new. One set didn't slide in the holders. I thought at first they were spent but on closer exam they weren't sliding forward anymore. They were both tight in the housings. Got one loosened up by just working it back and forth. The other I had to slide out and file a bit, seems the side in front of the wire had accumulated build up? I don't know. They slide fine now and all the way in. I don't know what the wear range is on these to know if they have lots of life left or not. Anyone know? Don't see in manual. Could always finish the refurb and bench test for fun.
 
Here's the ones on the plate, the others are worn similar. I wonder what it means that these two were sticky but the others not. Some electrickity thing no doubt.
brushes.jpg
 
Those brushes are perfectly fine.

Simply remove the "nick" on the brush on the right using a flat file.
Make sure they push in/out smoothly.
Use a graphite lubricant (sparingly!) along the sides of the brushes if necessary.

I see no problem with those.
Clean up the armature as described above and re-assemble.
Your starter should work fine.
 
SWEET!
I should back cut the armature then with a dremel cut off? To "lower" the area between plates a tad?
Just double checking.
Oh, is that solenoid plate reversible? Does the plastic ends and springs come apart easy or best to "dress it" and leave it?

Again, thanks so much. This site rocks. I might even get to try and start my X someday.
 
J... I made my own brushes by...

Simply purchasing some that were CLOSE in size and configuation, then GRINDING them down to fit.

The ones that are too snug can simply be SANDED down to glide more easily.

K.I.S.S.

Yours are OK relative to wear... just need to clean them up a bit...
 
Yep, yep, yep...

Turn the bolts 180, dress the contactor if its easier or best... I'm sorry I can't remember how he contactor comes apart. File it to clean it up, stretch the spring a bit and trial fit it to be sure it makes GOOD contact with the copper bolt heads, and then reassemble.

Don't forget to bench test the entire starter THROUGH the solenoid before putting it back up in the car. Wire it first, then install...

Bob and I will be waiting to hear the good news!
 
will do, have a 14 hour work day but will attack after that, (I'm getting too old for this).
BTW, can't just spin the bolts as they are asymmetrical but I can swap them side to side which changes the contact area a little anyway. I do think the solenoid was working fine, it was stuck brushes that was fouling up the works, I'm pretty sure.
You guys are banking up some free beer here in West Michigan.
 
... In Michigan??? Ya know...

... a bit of dry ice and next day air can get that beer here by 10:30 AM...

Just in time for LUNCH tomorrow!

HAHAHA!
 
Regrooved the commutter. Dressed the brushes, insured good sliding action. Reassembled solenoid (it was a pain trying to get a good solder on those wires). Bench test: good solenoid action. Good starter spin, then jumped the spade terminal to the main lug and got both good solenoid and starter spin. Spent some quality time putting it back in the car. Tried to wire first but the leads are so short and well, I decided to start one starter mounting bolt, then wire it up, simply couldn't finagle that so starter came back off, finally got wires on firmly (I sanded off the connections and washers first). THEN bolted starter on (as YOU told me to in the first place). Hooked battery back up. Hit key (this is 1:30 a.m. after working 14 hours....I was TRASHED) Something sure sounded different but was the motor spinning? Didn't really sound like it (spark plugs are out). I glanced through the access panel behind passenger seat to see the rotor spinning, smiled and went to bed.
Hopefully it lasts a while. Man I love "fixin' stuff and spending $0.00.
Many thanks for all the input......next up using the "revamped" starter to try and START the engine. Nice to know it turns over freely.
 
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