Steve H and MaddMatt: Sales Opportunity for Engine Swap Kit

Alex, i agree that the k20 with a 6 speed is an awesome setup, you proved it when we went for a ride in your car. the b will take less cutting and is a simpler install.. the balance lost from going to the b, putting the engine on the other side,is more critical in an actual race car like yours.
 
balance

so I am curious. in the right hand drive X1/9's do they reverse the layout of the engine and trans? ( I am guessing not) If they dont, then arent all right hand drive cars essentially not "balanced"? there are plenty of front drivers that have both left and right hand drive. It would seem that to bias a production vehicle for a right vs left wouldn't be the brightest idea. Has anyone ever balanced out an engine/trans to its mid point on where it sits in the car?


odie
 
The Choice Is NOT Simple..

matter of power per dollar and the drive package's ability to fit the X. While my personal 1st choice would be the Honda K20A, it's expensive to get initially, requires a final drive change to 4:1 to get proper gearing and etc...

IMO, the nicest and most cost effective drive package could be the Toyota 4AGE... with the MR2, series one transaxle. The 4AGE is an excellent engine with proven track record. These were raced in Toyota Atlantic, tuned up to 240 Bhp * 9800-10,000 Rpm red line. Not too difficult to get with plenty of after market parts available and, since the wheels size on the stock MR2-1 is not too different than the X, one could use the final drive in the transaxle as is. This means a more cost effective conversion.

In any case, nee 100 Bhp in an X is fun, more tends to be more desierable, but fact is where can one really use 200+ Bhp in an X chassis 100% of the time other than on a closed track or course?

The engine in my current X has a PBS big valve head, Stock_ish Bosch EFI, long tube headers, just over 10:1 compression, Abarth 21280 Cam and etc. I would be very surprise if this engine produced much over 100 Bhp, but it does make the X chassis come more alive and is very reliable, very smooth to 8,000 rpm and fun to drive while still getting nee 35 Mpg on steady cruse. Considering this FIAT engine was designed in the 60's and could still have the personality and qualities it does, Lampredi did great on this design. Few engines from that era offers what this Lampredi design does.
 
My 86 X used to be my daily driver about 12 years ago. Back then you could still get the most commonly used parts (dis cap, rotor button, all brake and clutch cyl, etc..) but not anymore. I'd like to put a drivetrain in the car that will allow me to maintain the faster highway speeds comfortably and still get the good fuel economy. It would also be nice to be able to pull into the nearest Autozone and find engine parts if needed. I'd love to start doing long trips with my X like I used to.

Jim in Atlanta
 
I've persoanlly driven a 4A-GE(MkI)swaped X(stock). It's slightly better than a stock 1500 for power. I wasn't impressed. It also had to have the rear frame notched. Most swaps out there that are worth doing in my opinion will require such cutting and modifacation to make them work.

I would have to choose from either the B-series or K-series Honda engines. Why? I think Toyota is great. But bang for the buck. I can build A 200hp B-series way cheaper than a K-series. But in the end the K has more potential. Heck I've driven 300Hp B-20 V-tec (supercharged whole engine budget less then $3K)cars. If u ever do that and tell me that isn't enough power for your X..... your nuts. It makes a 2300lb civic hatch uncontrolable.... can you say torque steer?
 
Rhd x's

No the engine layout is not reversed, but bare in mind it is counter weighted by the fuel tank on the passenger side.

Has anyone considered using a nissan sr20 for a conversion or a 4agze.

I have been thinking about the sr because there are limitless option available, strong reliable motors with good gearboxes. The only problem i can see is that you would need to cut into the rear firewall to allow for the turbo to have room and build a box which would remove your spare. You might also loose a small amount of boot space due to the inlet manifold.

Another great engine is the nissan sr16 neo which is n/a and produces similar power a the k20 only is a 1/3 of the cost due to being an unknown motor in most of the world.
 
Just Going off personal experiance. I have the most experiance dirrectly with the 4A-GE (the 4A-GZE is supercharged but not wonderfull if you ask me) and the B-series Honda engines. I've also built two Honda ZC engines. B-series are cheap to build and parts are available everywhere. They are the chevy350 in the import world. Oh ya and did I mention..... cheap to build. I'm just saying a decently built B-20 V-tec in a X would make most of you guys crap your pants.

Don't talk about it.... go drive one. I have a friend with a 89 civic hatch with a fully built B-20 V-tec (I helped build the engine)for sale.... entire car $4500. That car holds the record at the Black Otter hill climb in it's class. Yes it has suspension too..... $4500. But it just isn't an X.
 
jimmiet said:
Steve, how 'bout the VW 2.0 ? I've driven my Son's and that puppy just keeps pullen!!
Click to expand...

We talken 2.0FSI turbo? Or the older 2.0 16v?

Both great engines, the new turbo is amazing. When a 2.0fsi was as fast as my modded 2002 1.8t I was very impressed. And those 2.0 16v cars are no slouches either. The only issue with both motors is that they are fairly heavy blocks, medium bore and long stroke. They are great mid range engines, but wont rev like a b16, 4AGE, or k20. Then there is cost, the older 2.0's are fairly easy and cheap to build but more expensive then building a honda or toyota motor. The new FSI engine... im sure its more expensive then a k20.

I would love to get a 1.8t or 2.0fsi in an X, but even when talking to my VW mechanic up in San Jose he says go with a honda or toyota engine.
 
balanced

so I found through a loop of friends a 1999 civic si (b16a) who happens to race it occasionally. He had an engine an extra engine/trans outside his car. We measured out the center point of the car, marked where it hit on the engine/trans. It actually ran acrossed the engine, not where the 2 split. we then used a 2x4 and placed it under the engine/trans as close to the line as we could. after fiddling around, we had to move the 2x4 fulcrum 1.5 inches towards the engine side to get it to balance.
Crude, but I think it showed what I was looking for. I am hoping to find time to do the same to the X soon, to see where the weight center is. Once I know that, I can just where whatever swap I choose do to will need to be placed weight wise.

odie
 
4ag didn't impress?

I can only think that the 4ag powered X that didn't impress wasn't working right - my carbed 1500 X made something like 67hp, when I sold it and got my new 85 MR2 with 112hp, it was a huge difference. The next version of the 4ag 16v had 130hp - it's basically this engine I put together for the car now, with lighter crank and rods from the 20v, and cams, and making 150-160hp while getting 40mpg on the highway. For me, it's completely fantastic, and the perfect match for an X.
 
All I'm going to say is...... I'm sorry that a 112hp Mr2 can impress you. yes the 20v 4A-GE is Impressive..... very impressive with cams in a corolla FX. But I have never thought that any of the Mr2's were ever impressive with a stock drivetrain. And this X was better than a stock 1500 X with the swap. But not that much more impressive.
What I was saying is that for the time and money spent on what the stock swap did.... you could do better with a snotty 1500X build.
The only Mr2 thats impressed me...... really impressed me was a turbo charged 3S-GTE swap. Now that car was impressive.
 
The comparison offered was stock 4ag vs stock 1500

And circa 1985 the stock 4ag was impressive for an off the showroom car - my 1500 could barely break 80mph, my MR2 could do 120. With the parts now available from all versions of the engine, you can build an engine that's vastly better, cheap, and the relative ease of the transplant makes for a perfect swap into the X. Guys put turbos, larger displacement turbos, into the MR2, Bill Strong put a Caddy V-8 into one, and guys have done similar things with the X, and to me, they don't suit the cars. Mid-engine cars are about balance and finesse, and part of this is a high-revving n/a, not some brute turbo that's basically an on/off switch.
 
That's correct, I started this thread with the intent of asking our very experienced and capable X-perts Matt and Steve what it would take to add power to an X to get it to the point where "it should have been" from the factory, but with the upper limit being to no overmatch the rest of the car.

Two ways to do that: mod the existing SOHC or do an engine and trans swap.

I get the sense from Matt that 100-115 HP from the SOHC is the sweet spot, meaning any more than that is going to take major surgery in the form of SOHC mods that will begin to take their toll on street driveavility, or in the form of an engine swap, not to mention with more than 100-115 HP we have to start beefing up other driveline components (if you keep the SOHC) and brakes regardless of whether the SOHC is swapped or kept.
 
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