Stock vs Modified

Discussion in 'Discussion Forum' started by Dr.Jeff, Jan 11, 2019 at 2:12 AM.

  1. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    When it comes to customized vehicles, the X1/9 likely falls into the category of roughly 50% are modified and 50% are stock(ish). Just a WAG (wild ass guess).
    However that may compare closely to the modern "retro" cars. You know, the ones that have a heritage to the old "muscle car" or similar past era, but are new vehicles. A recent survey found that nearly 50% of the current 'retro' muscle cars are modified or customized: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/201...mail&utm_content=182081&utm_campaign=eNews3.5
     
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  2. beezee

    beezee True Classic

    "Modified" or "stock" doesn't leave too much gray area. I think a car that has a few minor mods, i.e. high flow air filter and pine tree air freshener, is much different than a car with a complete engine swap, but both would be considered "modified".
     
  3. dllubin

    dllubin True Classic

    Back in the day, most of the X1/9s that I was familiar with (as well as Fiats in general) were modified in order to reduce the probability of being blown off at a traffic light by a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. When I brought my X home from the dealer, the guy who I rented the house with and I went out for a drive. His Pinto was definitely faster in the straights before I removed the smog stuff and rejetted the carb (he bought an X about a month later). I suppose the vast majority of owners drove their cars stock back then, but there was a significant subset of people that bought Fiats because they were fun to drive and wanted to unleash more potential. I suspect your 50/50 is not far off the mark today, maybe even higher on the modified side when you consider it may be close to impossible to keep an absolutely "stock" car running due to parts availability.
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I suppose technically speaking, anything not totally stock would be considered modified. But in terms of the modern cars, 'modified' is typically considered as having aftermarket components added - performance, styling, etc. So in that respect you are right, many old Fiats (eg. X1/9) are not heavily modified. But I'd still guess that roughly 50% are enough to be considered non-stock (or 'modified'). Maybe even more, as "dllubin" suggests.
     
  5. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    The 74' has it's original 1300cc engine and 4 speed with 185/55/14 tires on 14x6 wheels and slightly upgraded suspension and accurate-precise wheel alignment. Acceleration is fine for daily driving except most would be horrified at the way this 1300cc Lampredi is driven to 6,000-8,000 RPM nearly every shift_Full Throttle and no restrain on using this 1300cc Lampredi to it's very limit every time it is driven.

    *No Lampredi 1300cc or 1500cc SOHC engine as delivered by Fiat has ever failed when driven this way over decades of ownership and many, many, many miles. When folks say Fiat's are "Unreliable", "Fragile", "Difficult to work on" given the history of living these these Lampredi engines for this amount of time and using them to their limit with proper maintenance it is not possible to convince me of these moto myth assertions. Similar is true with the transaxle, it is NOT fragile, it fails due to how the transaxle is treated by the driver-owner.

    The exxe is NOT about off the line-straight line acceleration, it is much about how much speed can be maintained on a crooked_non straight road. When a fully stock exxe is driven to it's limit, it is a LOT of fun and very rewarding in the same way as any moto with an exceptional chassis.

    At some point, the 74' will get a 1600cc Lampredi SOHC and 3.xa_5speed... but not until the suspension has been completely upgraded with Koni 8611s all around, completely adjustable suspension, precision PTFE spherical bearings all around. Essentially the chassis-suspension-brakes must be good enough and drive up to expectations before any more power is added.

    The Fiat Uno Turbo front brakes with Fiat-Lancia 38mm rear brake calipers went in long before any other changes were made.

    What makes any moto really FUN is a balance of excellent chassis-suspension-braking-power with few if any out of balance aspects of the moto.

    Want straight line acceleration, try a Tesla in "Boosted" mode. Yes, it accelerates but the other dynamics of the Tesla will never connect with the driver in ways the exxe always does.


    Bernice
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 3:38 PM
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  6. Eastep

    Eastep Dub-ing

    Location:
    PA
    When I hear the term ''stock", my mind instantly goes to "performance". As I'm sure many if not most others do the same. If your chatting with another car person (for example) and say "do you have anything done to your car" or "what's been done to your car"? And they reply "nothing; just wheels and rally flaps; it's stock"; it is understood that the car (other then a few cosmetics is unmodified in any appreciable way. Even small "upgrades" such as an aftermarket DV (diverter valve, it's a turbo thing ;), still render a car as "Stock". The term "modified" to most car people means "significantly" altered from "stock"= (ie. Insignificant modifications) also (read a K&N filter does not constitute being modified). ... Sorry dude in Wal-Mart parking lot.
    Modified is along the lines of: full suspension upgrades, any change in engine internals, any significant change in engine fuel delivery or engine management (newer cars), any significant changes to intake or exhaust systems, and significant changes to body structure or aerodynamics (no adding a wing only, does not count.) Any significant upgrading or alterations of interior, trim, electronics and/or performance oriented reliability upgrades.
    I think most car people have this rough outline in their mind when conversing about "stock" and "modified".
     
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  7. Frank L. Di Gioia

    Frank L. Di Gioia True Classic

    Location:
    las vegas, nevada
    I agree with Dub-ing on the "modified" account. At risk of betraying I'm older than dirt (again) my first car was a 1955 Chevy (Ok, it was SoCal) which I ran at San Fernando drag strip STOCK class. That was the way it came from Detroit. After removing several hundred pounds (front bumper, various parts) and getting the famous "Duntov" 097 cam, headers, lower gears, larger 4-barrel, floor shifter (remember that conversion) it was dubbed "C-MODIFIED PRODUCTION." That meant it was still street legal also. Next was D gas which was rather radical- dropped front axle, fiberglass tilt front end, the works.
     
  8. toddr124

    toddr124 Hagerstown, MD

    Location:
    Hagerstown, MD
    I feel my X1/9 is stock, but it has a few "upgrades";
    300mm Momo steering wheel
    15 inch rims
    new stereo
    Center arm rest
    Saturn Teal color (repaint)
    Saratoga top
    Relays for the headlights, wipers and power windows
    Leather shift gator
    Henk Sun visors
    Toyo T1R tyres

    All the above does not make it a modified car in my opinion.
     
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  9. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    This thread has generated some interesting responses. So I'll stimulate it further. Now define "custom" vs "modified".
     
  10. Eastep

    Eastep Dub-ing

    Location:
    PA
    To my mind when I hear "custom", I immediately cringe inside, and conjure up visions of plastic stick on's from AutoZone, pin stripping on cars that have no business being pin stripped, big wheels aka Donks, chrome everything, and/ or anything PT Cruiser related. All are very cringy.
    https://goo.gl/images/Zaioyx
    https://goo.gl/images/TBTmSN
    https://goo.gl/images/7722Ft
    https://goo.gl/images/A248mQ
    https://goo.gl/images/Yt7KPP

    And the pièce de résistance

    https://goo.gl/images/ycbSyK

    Sorry for links, pics won't post.
     
  11. Mechanogeek

    Mechanogeek True Classic

    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    My two cents worth…

    Stock:
    As it came from the factory, with nothing changed except expendable parts, like tires, brake pads, hoses and belts, fluids and filters. Wear parts like bushings, pads, belts and etc replaced with same material replacements.

    Upgraded:
    Some parts changed to use different or higher performance options, like lights, brake pads, filters, suspension shocks and springs and bushings, radiator, etc. No changes to functionality, location, or dimensions of parts being replaced, and parts being replaced conform to original design specs, within reason. This would also include wiring changes made to update the reliability or function of the electrical system. I’d include upgraded tires and wheels in this category, but only if changing them would not exclude using the original tires and wheels. So changing an air filter configuration would fall into this category, but would not include changing from fuel injection to carburation.

    Modified:
    Changes made using parts that are not of original design, engineering, or require changes to functionality, location, dimensions. Like coilovers, body kits, intake type or capacity, alternators… Essentially, if you take it off the car, and set it side-by-side with a stock replacement, they wouldn’t match. Would also apply to parts being permanently removed from the car (like bumpers) or parts that changed between locations and years being swapped (like bumpers again). And, would apply to changes made to sheet metal that were intended to change the profiles to other than stock.

    So the stock category would be the only black and white comparison. If it ain’t like it came from the factory, it ain’t stock.

    The lines between upgraded and modified are blurred depending on the scope and intent of the changes. If a car was essentially stock, and had the wiring mods, and 15" wheels, and coilovers, and maybe sway bars, that might be considered an upgraded car. Because the wiring mods were needed, and the coilovers and sway bars can be simply unbolted and the car returned to stock. Change the bumpers, 15” wheels, coilovers, put on some flares, and a rear spoiler, and change over to twin webers… Yeah, modified. You’ve crossed the line.
     
  12. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I could not disagree more. Don't confuse dime store trinkets for a custom car build. For the "more mature" members, think Gene Winfield, Bill Hines, or George Barris cars. If you are a Porsche fan, think Rob Dickinson (Singer), Rod Emory, or Magnus Walker. If you like Japanese cars then people like Akira Nakai (RWB), Hiroyuki Hasegawa (HKS). How about what Dallara did to the X1/9. On TV there have been several US shops featured, with their own shows highlighting custom builds; Bill Carlton (Ekstensive Metal Works), Aaron Kaufman (ArcLight), Ryan Friedlinghaus (West Coast Customs). How about all of the European supercar designers/builders. Or the countless motorcycle customizers.
    I would use the term "custom" to mean re-designed, very heavily modified, re-engineered, completely re-styled or otherwise altered from the original design beyond some mods or performance upgrades.
     
  13. bruakeman

    bruakeman True Classic

    Location:
    Ohio
    My 85 was custom modified by the tree that fell on it.:( But it is still bone stock and still a total hoot to drive, but looking a bit beat on.
     
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  14. Frank L. Di Gioia

    Frank L. Di Gioia True Classic

    Location:
    las vegas, nevada
    Fun thread! Now let's examine "stock" as related to what the factory tells everyone is "stock" when their (blank, name it) will do the 1/4 mile in 11.00 flat at 126MPH, 0-60 in 2.8, and the skid pad pulling 1.4 G. All just like the one you can buy at your local (blank again) dealer. That and the road test which could be construed to "possibly" favor your (blank). I do agree with just about everyone on the forum, it's just the PAID flunkies at ALL of the magazines I have a beef with. Nasty old man 'er….
     
  15. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Frank, don't get me started on claimed fuel mileages.
     
  16. MikeHynes

    MikeHynes True Classic

    Location:
    Goodfield, IL.
    For some folks as soon as you wipe the chalk marks off of the firewall you have modified the car. Some folks set their hair on fire when they see non stock hose clamps or hoses or sparkplug wires with the wrong date codes. Some folks spend a lot of money to make sure that things like alternators, fuel pumps, etc, etc have the proper casting dates on them. I think most everyone understands the numbers matching thing, and most everyone understands that numbers matching cars most often command the highest prices. All depends on what a buyer is looking for. If the car is "investment grade" it will probably be a numbers matching, chalk marks/paint daubs kinda car. No mods at all.
    That's not to say that modified cars have no value, but most modifications reflect a period taste. And because tastes change overtime certain modifications go out of style. (When was the last time you saw florescent green windshield wipers on a car?)
    But who knows how automotive tastes will change? The "survivor" crowd gets upset when you wipe the dust off of a barn find, image the horror they feel when they think about a "frame off restoration".
    What's one to do? I think whatever you want! After all it's your car. Have fun with it!
     
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  17. Daniel Forest

    Daniel Forest True Classic

    Location:
    Montreal,Canada
    Just depends on your point of view. Mine is from running a race sanctionning body for a long time. I'm with purp... I mean @Mechanogeek for the stock category. I would even had to say that todd description fit the stock category but for the move to 15 inches wheels.

    Some are also using the term "street" for stock.

    At the other end of the Spectrum, Modified usually describe car with engine swaps from another manufacturer (K20 would fit that but a Fiat DOHC into a x10 would be into a gray area) or major body changes (Dallara fenders, or windshield removal) or empty interior.

    In the middle, different sanctioning bodies use different approaches with different names: super-stock, street prepared, street modified, prepared, etc. I remember there was a time with points preparation system in Canada (less than 6 for ss, less than 15 for prepared,...).

    I have a friend (I will not tell his name) with a green Kermit car who once told me he wanted to keep his car STOCK. Then, later he explained he was not doing any modifications, just ameliorations. Car appear stock but WE would know the bumpers are not correct for the year, there were no 15" wheels ever on factory X1/9's and hidden in the engine, the cam is no longer stock. So, sometimes, we just evolved, sometimes our description of stock is changing.

    So, in the end, for me a stock car is like @mechanogeed says "nothing changed except expendable parts, like tires, brake pads, hoses and belts, fluids and filters. Wear parts like bushings, pads, belts and etc replaced with same material replacements". In a slighty upgrade caterogy, I would accept any changes that could be revert: 15 inches wheels, brake upgrades, race seat, even twin carbs and headers... because the car could return to his "as deliver from the factory" set-up. But as soon as you start cutting some metal, opening the head flow, bolting camber plates, you are in a "street modified/street prepared" category.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 1:05 AM
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  18. carl

    carl True Classic

    Location:
    Virginia
    This is all just labeling as I did when calling my car a rat X. Todd, I would call your car upgraded but certainly not stock. Before the crunch my Bertone was modified and the white X was upgraded.

    Or, as the kids say, "whatever".
     
  19. Joe F

    Joe F Hi Miles, Lo Maintenance

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Interesting thread, but one that will always avoid definition. The fact that we bought sports cars sets us apart from the average motoring public. We enjoy driving more than appreciating cars (although we certainly appreciate fine auto craftsmanship). Emotion plays a big part in our ownership and drives us to pursue a greater satisfaction in our rides, whether it's racing, street driving or car shows. The X happens to be the perfect vehicle for our pursuit of automotive pleasure be it stock, upgraded, modified or custom. We all share in the unique experience of Fiat ownership. It also has spawned a great web site to share our passion with other Fiat fanatics.
     

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