Suspension mod -- Vick's Hydrasports

C

ConsoleTVMan

Daily Driver
Has anybody installed this stut/coilover kit?

http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_7_70&products_id=4349

Price is right. I am just looking to lower the front of my car to european spec. I currently have no plans to autox my car, just want to drive down the street collecting thumbs up...

Also -- can anybody educate me about why the price is lower than Koni or or other shocks? Apparently Hydrasports are not "adjustable". What exactly is adjustable when you upgrade to Koni?
 
It is correct for the front of the exxe to be slightly higher in the front than rear, not a "European" thing, the chassis is actually set up this way.

If one were to corner weight the exxe's chassis for 50% cross weight loaded, the front ends up slighty higher than rear.

Adjustments done to achieve otherwise is more of an auto fashion statement.


As for the Vick's kit, no idea what the details are. Give then a call to discuss. IMO, the spring rates are on the lowish side for a performance set up and backwards... aka, front spring rates should be higher than rear for cornering performance without stability bars.


Bernice



ConsoleTVMan said:
I am just looking to lower the front of my car to european spec. I currently have no plans to autox my car, just want to drive down the street collecting thumbs up...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, Bernice.

I am under the impression that US X's have a higher front ride height in order to meet US federal safety standards...I am old enough to remember the onset of such regulations, and their negative effect upon appearance (late 70's MBGs and early 80s BMWs with "diving board" bumpers are exhibits 1 & 2)...therefore I want to take my 1980 X back to a slightly "purer" state.

To all reading this post...let there be no doubt...Bernice has my number...I AM a slave to automotive fashion.
 
If I'm not mistaken, it's the Euro cars that have a higher rear ride height - not a lower front. Look at old pics of Euro cars, you'll see what I mean - lots of gap in the wheel house at the rear.

I might be wrong, but that's my impression.

I say lower the front and rear :)
 
Last edited:
+1

Yep, European cars have a higher rear ride height than USA cars. They actually look "level" rather than the USA cars' nose high attitude.
 
Last edited:
Well... IMHE...

Struts for the street...

https://www.google.com/search?q=x1/9+struts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

1. KYBs work just fine... about $250 bucks for all four...

2. Cut one coil off the front stock springs, heat, bend and grind to fit the socket. ($5.00 for a 12 x 1.25mm dye from Pep Boys to add more thread to strut shaft.)

3. Plaia Pivots strut top-mount bearings... replacing the usually broken phenolic part. Most of our vendors have them for about $80 bucks. (Poor Man's Power Steering, a "must" said by most.

4. Plaia Big Foot Strut Tower Doublers (if needed). Look for cracks around your towers or "ballooning" of the towers around the 3 top mount bolts. $100 bucks.

5. New "performance springs" optional... which I don't think you need, $200.

Bottom line... a minimum of about $335 bucks, some labor and I bet you will be ecstatic. All sxs info on this site with fotos.

At the most... $635 bucks. Or go with the Vicks package for $675 but you really need to at least add the bearings for another $80. I personally have NO experience with the Koni's, adjustable or not. From what I have HEARD here, the "performance springs" usually add MORE height.

Just wanted to point out that you have a few options... good luck with your decision.

A BIG P.S.

Fashion... yes... and not only that but greater turning and braking for a relatively stock street car as it places a bit more static weight forward for improved traction along with the width of the 60 series tires.

Using 175/60x13's up front and 205/60's in the rear gives ya another nice rubber rake that adds to making this car look more like a "Wedge", rather than an "Arrow".

Looking at the front rocker behind the RF tire... note the location of the tip of the right angle here...



as compared to the tip just in front of the RR tire. The front part of the rocker is about 3/4" lower.



The one coil cut, and the heated and fitted spring, resulted in about a 2" drop at the very front end of the front bumper. This along with the rubber-rake netted this result...

 
Last edited:
Fashionably low

Awesome, thanks all for the replies & good info.

Re euro X1/9s are higher in back too -- I have read elsewhere that post-war Alfa & Fiat cars tended to have higher ground clearance than cars of other nations, due to poor roads in Italy, so that makes sense!

Esp. thanks to Tony for the cost-effective lowering recipe. It is beyond my current skill level (haven't cut/bent/welded since metal shop in 1972!), so I will probably go with the Vicks setup, since they are bolt-in.

I will post my experience when I put them in.
 
Sorry for the slow reply

The Hydrasport is a series of shocks and struts we had made just for us. The X1/9 inserts are not adjustable units. We can offer you Koni inserts that are very adjustable but they command top dollar and do all Koni products.

As for the spring rates, the base package is a bit stronger than OEM but still rather soft. Most folks step up to the 225f/275r.

Our kit comes with spherical bearing upper mounts and thrust bearings for the springs to ride on. If your strut mount area of the car is cracking then you should have it repaired before installing any replacement suspension parts.

The ride height is of course very adjustable with our kit. We managed to adjust it down to the point the tires rubbed and up to a height much taller than stock. To go fully down, the bump stop must be removed from the kit. The camber bolts with eccentric washers allow for several degrees of adjustment. I think we calculated it at approximately 7 degrees.
 
Correct as far as 1500s go

The euro 1300s are the same as US 1300s, so are nose-high.
Euro carbed 1500s had "longer" rear struts.
 
Adjustable ride height is good, problem being too many lower the exxe too much. This results in forcing the suspension's roll center to go below road level causing the tire to essentially dig into the pavement due to the point of force applied by the suspension.

Both front and rear lower suspension arms should be at most parallel to the road surface or slightly pointing down at the wheel end and up on the end closes to the center of the chassis.

All this makes zero difference if the chassis is set up to be a moto-fashion statement.

IMO, higher spring rates in the rear is wrong, that is a very old school mind set partly due to the belief since there is more weight at the rear of the exxe, the spring rates must be higher. What this mind set often results in is have essentially the same or very similar resonance frequency at the front and rear of the chassis and insufficient front roll stiffness. It's fine for a chassis that bounces up and down both ends upon hitting a bump. This does not result in good overall ride quality. This setting also tend to result in a a chassis setting that is inherently understeering (false sense of chassis stability for the driver) which can be a good thing, but not idea for performance driving needs. To compensate for the lack of front roll stiffness, a front stability bar is often needed to gain back much needed front roll stiffness.


Bernice
 
Bernice

The springs can be paired with the front weaker than the rear, equal all around, or with the front stronger than the rear. You can even pair them left to right if you drive circle track. The springs are the same basic size just different rates. The inserts in our kits are the same size so they can be moved as well. Feel free to play with setups to your heart's content.
 
Ah! I had a set of Koni rear struts that were taller than North American struts. They were on my race car and it looked odd.
 
Bernice,
installation of front sway bar like "Adco" are they influence the front spring rate needed? It is a major variable we must consider ?
 
There are many, many ways the chassis on the exxe can be set up. From soft and cushy with lot of understeer to near limit of adhesion to overly stiff with snap oversteer with a flick of the steering wheel to instant spin if the throttle is let off chassis loaded under cornering forces.

Stock chassis set up with stock spring rates, damper rated, good tires and wheels is a surprisingly good set of trade offs for most real world road conditions this chassis will encounter. It is also forgiving yet, not difficult to control until the limits of tire adhesion is reached.

The goal and intent of adding a front stability bar is to increase roll stiffness and alter initial weight transfer upon turn entry. Adding of stability bars has a tendency to increase feel of both wheels being tied together, generally increasing the sense of chassis stability. Stability bars do transfer wheel activity from one side to the other affecting the opposing wheel connected to the bar.

This tends to increase understeer to varying degrees depending on stability bar size.

To counteract this effect a smaller rear stability bar is often added to restore balance at the trade off of tying the wheels opposing wheels together and reducing their ability to act independently over bumps and other road conditions and driver demands on the chassis.

As for spring rates and stability bars, they are interactive and must work together as a system along with dampers, bushings and every other individual component of the suspension-chassis.

Actual ideal chassis set up depends on driver needs, expectations and demands from road and driving conditions.

None of this is simple once the finer aspects of chassis set up is delved into.

If adding a front stability bar with stock springs and dampers feels correct under real world driving and road conditions, that is often good enough.

If one is targeting best track times by one expert driver, that is a completely different can-O-tires.


Bernice






Yves said:
Bernice,
installation of front sway bar like "Adco" are they influence the front spring rate needed? It is a major variable we must consider ?
Click to expand...
 
Exactly

Koni made two version of rears.
Short (1300) and long (euro 1500).
Seems that in the end, only the long ones were available from Koni.
I had a set of those on my car for a while...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top