<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]threw a timing belt... need advice...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000 at 1:26 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("kevin"); // --> </SCRIPT>kevin <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
well i had an adventureous weekend.
coming back from kent on 167 heading through puyallup tward olympia... 3 am, speedo is peged... top off, havin a blast...
just past the fairgrounds exit i see oil light and no power. pull off to the side, 30 seconds later i'm hiking to a friends house because doing a timing belt in the dark isn't going to happen.
with a rachet the cam seemed to turn fairly smoothly, and no cylinders felt different
than the others.
when it threw the belt i didn't hear any kind of hard slam...
well, had to get her home, so i spent 4 hours replacing the timing belt.
no book, no timing light, basic hand tools. :/
above the crank pully there are 3 points on a bracket. i lined the notch in the crank pully up with the notch closest to the passenger compartment.
the cam pully notch was ligned up with the pointer thingy on the right hand motor mount.
could find no index marks at all on the auxillary shaft, so i eyeballed it with the rotor just coming on to the #1 distributor cap contact when the motor is at tdc.
needed a jump start to get it started (i think i have a bad battery) ....
started right up. idles a bit low (900 instead of 1000) but she sounded okay.
packed my stuff up and headed home...
about 5 miles out of puyallup the temp guage is sitting at 200 deg, at about where the radiator fans normally kick on. i didn't hear 'em or feel them come on, but it doesn't mean they didn't / don't..
70 mph all the way home... seemed fine, but my recollection is that for 85-90 degrees outside she's running hot...
no detonation that i could hear, power seems about normal...
had a little foam in the coolant when i pulled over to check the coolant, but after flushing it out of the expansion tank i didn't get any more, so i think the cooling system might have been a bit low... at 70 the temp stayed solid at 190 for the trip home.
so, the car is an 81, i think it's the original engine.
the 2 questions i have are a) do the pistons hit the valves on this model, and 2) is the heat problem because the valves are bent, or because the timing's off or?
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "F";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "X";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Mark"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mark <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Fiat fun<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000, 2:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think if the valves contacted the pistons, there would be no doubt about it! Your timing could contribute to running hot, but 190 really seems OK by my book. What did it used to run at? Mark
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("kevin schooler"); // --> </SCRIPT>kevin schooler <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->well...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 1:12 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->when i was sitting at the traffic light it climbed up to about 220 or so, and a lot of this could just be paranoia and tha fact that it was a damnned hot day. i think the car might have had a minor electrical problem that is manifesting itself now at the same time, so i need to dig into it further..
my guess is the timing is way off as a start, and was hopeing to hear something like "oh yeah, that's the problem!"
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->broken belt problems<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000, 3:07 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stock 1500s are "safe", the valves won't hit the pistions if the belt breaks.
As for the overheating, you may have set the ignition timing too advanced. That would account for having to jumpstart the car (too much advance will act like a low battery). Also, too much advance will make the car run hot. Typically, it will also raise the idle some. The idle being low could be accounted for by the ignition timing being retarded slightly, but you would probably notice a loss in performance.
Recheck the cam and ignition timing, either or both may be out.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("kevin schooler"); // --> </SCRIPT>kevin schooler <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks steve...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 1:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
all of my experience with these cars is 79's and earliers. i didn't realys "any" 1500 was not an interference motor...
/me thinks about the big valve headed stock pistoned 1500 with the polished pistons that threw the timing belt, and decides it's time to break it open, since the cam was stock it should be fine
so, by my description is the cam timing correct?
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Actually, no.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 8:14 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I had to go back and re-read your description of how you timed the cam. I don't know how I missed it the first time. You timed it like a 1300, but that doesn't work on the 1500. The 1500 cam timing mark is on the back side of the pully. Line it up with the notch in the cutout at the top of the timing belt cover backing plate. For the crank use the longest pointer (the one you used is the correct one), but better yet, use the mark on the flywheel. 1500s have an "adjustable" pointer for the front pully.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "F";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "X";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Mark"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mark <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1500's and timing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 9:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My carbed 79 has the timing mark on the front of the cam pulley, and I time it from the tab on the engine mount. Nothing adjustable about it!
Mark<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("kevin schooler"); // --> </SCRIPT>kevin schooler <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->uhhh..<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 25 2000, 11:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->so that means it's runnign with the cam 90 degrees out or something? eeeek
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z"; document.write("ian lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>ian lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->X owner's nightmare!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 2:39 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Chucking the cam timing belt off must be an exxy owner's biggest fear! After reading Kevin's post I felt a shiver go up my back, as I am still wondering what keeps the cam belt centralized on the pulleys and prevents it from riding off the pulleys. When replacing the cambelt on my 1300 X a few months ago, I couldn't see any belt guides on any of the pulleys (similar to what Japanese engines have on the crankshaft pulley). Surely it doesn't rely on the plastic belt cover to hold it in line - or that annoying projection on the cover that goes under the tensioner (that I cut off (gulp!)so I could get the cover back on). Can someone ease my mind and tell me what stops the belt flying off, as Kevin just described? cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Stefan Mullikin"); // --> </SCRIPT>Stefan Mullikin <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: X owners Nightmare!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 3:20 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Probably the same thing that keeps the timing belt on the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 engines. Mainly tension and the design of the belt. In other words, a flat toothed belt on a wide crank/camshaft gear will not go any where provided that the face of both the cam gear and the crankshaft gear remain parallel to each other and the belt has the proper tension.
Too much tension and it runs too the outside of the gear, too little and it drifts towards the inside.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Clif Newton[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->timing belt worries<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 9:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->No need to worry the front crankshaft dampner will prevent it from coming off in all but the worst circumstances. Tension and design keep it from running off. The cover is strictly to keep foreign objects from interfering with the belts operation. Many of a VW rabbits thirtieth owner have bemoaned the lack of timing belt cover and had to cough up the two hundred bucks it cost for a new junker. If you belt does slide forward or back due to lack of tension then you will hear a very loud rubbing sound that varies with remarkable similarity to the motor rpm. So fear not, this kind of failure is much more forgiving than the usual lack of maintenance; I will change that belt next weekend kind of failure.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Greg"); // --> </SCRIPT>Greg <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rabbit belts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 9:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Actually, Rabbits had non-interference engines. Then when the 16v's came along it became a worry. And now of course I think it's always a concern. But not for early Rabbits, even FI'd ones.
I know from, er, experience.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>Doc <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds like...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 11:04 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Ian-
I may be able to help... My experience is limited to 1500's, and I am assuming that the belt setup is similar (can anyone confirm this?)
When you had it apart, did you replace the tensioner bearing? If so, the housing that the bearing sits in has a little pin on it that fits in a hole on the block. It is possible to reinstall the bearing and holder without having this pin lined up (I did it). When that happens, the bearing face that is in contact with the belt will tilt a few degrees out (not very far, and it is hard to tell by eye). It IS enough to make it throw the belt. On the upshod, it's very easy to fix... just pull the bearing, and align it properly.
If you didn't changethe bearing, I'd recommend that you do... mine was totally shot... was hardly turning.
Hope this helps,
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Doc"); // --> </SCRIPT>Doc <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->whoops, should be to kevin, not ian - my bad <NT>
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 11:06 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Mike"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mike <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Are you sure<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 4:24 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My 75 1300 Canadian spec ( I've yet to find a difference with a 49 states) has a "guide" on the cam shaft pully, the belt just fits on it and cannot slide sideways
Cheers
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z"; document.write("ian lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>ian lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: are you sure?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 5:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Mike - yes, very sure that there is no 'guide' or anything similar on the camshaft pulley on my car ('78 1300 X - UK spec). When fitting the new cambelt on the engine, I can remember thinking that something must be missing that prevents the belt riding off the pulleys (a la crank pulley guides on Honda's). But there didn't appear to be anywhere where something may have fallen off or been left off at some earlier time. According to the very well kept service records that came with my X, I am pretty sure that it had not had a cambelt replaced since new - 49000 miles on the car when I got it - the belt that came off it was definitely OE (Fiat branded anyway). So I crossed fingers and let 'er rip! Looking thru the little space under the tin cover behind the camshaft pulley, the belt doesn't appear to have moved at all after about 1500 miles since I replaced it, so I hope all is well. And some of the earlier threads to this post make me feel happier!!.
Just another oddity about X's! cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What keeps the belt on the pulleys<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 2000, 1:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I asked myself the same question when I installed a Yugo pulley on my car which doesn't have lips on the pulley unlike my original one (with air pump).
When I had the idler off, I layed a ruler across its surface and found that it is very slightly concave. This provides enough force to keep the belt centered.
I have had problems twice with the belt walking to one side.
The first time, I had some rubber deposits on the idler.
The second time, the new belt was bad! I installed another belt and the problem was gone. I assume that the teeth weren't quite perpendicular to the belt...
Ulix <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z"; document.write("ian lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>ian lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: What keeps the belt on the pulleys?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 2000, 7:18 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Ulix - OK, that sounds like a smart piece of engineering by Mr Fiat!! So when the idler gets renewed from time to time, there is a nice new concave surface for the new belt to follow - sounds like good sense to me! (I wonder if non-genuine idler bearings have this feature - pays to stick with genuine parts, huh!). BTW, got your email re the stickers now on their way, thanks. Looking forward to receiving them. cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->belt gears & guide lips - there IS a centering method!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 12:17 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->X1/9s over the years (and across different markets) have come with different styles of timing gears. There have been variations of the cam, crank & aux shaft gears, even variations on the crank pulley (where the alternator belt rides) - these combinations of gears & pulleys are designed to all work together as a team to keep the timing belt riding straight, so it is important that the right gears are used together... as I found out!
I learned this while rebuilding my '75's engine. The original cam gear was one of those stupid US-spec split gears, with a second track on it for a smog pump belt. I had eliminated the smog pump, and did not want to put this double-gear back on, so I went & snagged the nice metal gears from a late Yugo engine (which I later figured out are basically configured the same as later 1500 X gears). The Yugo gears were identical in diameter & tooth to the 1300 X gears I was taking off...
BUT there were differences! On the '75's original gears, the aux shaft gear had a lip on the outside (away from block) edge, and the little timing gear on the crank had a lip on the inside (toward block). Together these 2 lips (and a tight tensioner bearing) are what keeps the belt from walking off. It was only later, though, that I figured out that even the crank PULLEY is different with these gear sets!
The new cam gear had no lips on either side, so obviously it is not doing any centering work. As I said, the old aux gear had a lip on the outside, the old crank gear had one on the inside.
Well, the Yugo crank gear also had a lip on the inside, but the Yugo aux shaft gear had no lip at all! Hmmn. I went ahead to "see what happens"...
I took all of the old X gears off, and replaced them with the Yugo gears...
So I now had the new crank, aux & cam gears from the Yugo on my X. I had the engine on a stand & put the stock X crank pulley on over the Yugo crank gear, and put the timing belt on to crank it all over by hand for a check. Well, the belt immediately started to walk right off the outside of the cam gear, which caused it to start rubbing on the inside of the crank pulley!! NOT GOOD
I took it all apart to find out why the belt could no longer track straight. AT FIRST, I thought it was because the new aux shaft gear had no lip on the outside like the old one did. BUT that was not entirely it!!
It was half of the reason, but the other half of the reason was that I used the original 1300 X crank pulley with the new gears, and it is only designed to work with the set that has the lipped aux gear.
Let me explain: On the set that has a lipped aux gear, the aux gear prevents outside walk-off, so the crank pulley has basically a tiny protrusion to butt up against the crank gear. It doesn't matter if the t-belt can move over far enough to touch the backside of the pulley, because the lip on the aux shaft prevents this.
BUT when I put the new gears on, including the aux gear with no lip, there was now nothing to stop the belt from walking over & contacting the backside of the crank pulley, which is BAD
So I went & got the crank pulley from the Yugo, to see if there was a difference, and there was!!
The new crank pulley has a much larger & wider protrusion on the back, big enough to act like a lip against the outside of the crank gear when they are put together on the crank, so then the crank gear would keep the belt from walking inward, and (of all things) the crank pulley now (instead of the aux gear) would keep the belt from walking outward.
I was surprised by this. I swapped the original X pulley out for the Yugo pulley, which was designed to mate with the other Yugo gears I had installed, and that was it! Even with the tensioner loose, the belt would not walk off center now, in either direction.
BTW, I did not notice any concavity to any of these gears. I could be wrong, but I think that if the gear looks concave it might be worn. Mine all appear to be perfectly straight surfaced on all facets. Just thought I would mention it.
Anyway, so that is what I believe to be the answer: on 1300s, the crank gear lip keeps the belt from walking in, and the aux shaft gear lip keeps it from walking out. On 1500s, the crank gear still keeps the belt from walking in, but it is the backside of the crank pulley (of all things) that keeps it from walking out, because the aux gear has no lip.
Just my own experiences, "your results may vary"
Peace, -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "z"; document.write("ian lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>ian lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ye gods, what have we started here?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 2:51 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->After reading Mac's post, I think I will hook the dreaded timing cover off my car on the w/end and resurvey the whole scene!!! PS - no wonder Jap engines don't chuck cambelts off! ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000 at 1:26 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "L";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("kevin"); // --> </SCRIPT>kevin <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
well i had an adventureous weekend.
coming back from kent on 167 heading through puyallup tward olympia... 3 am, speedo is peged... top off, havin a blast...
just past the fairgrounds exit i see oil light and no power. pull off to the side, 30 seconds later i'm hiking to a friends house because doing a timing belt in the dark isn't going to happen.
with a rachet the cam seemed to turn fairly smoothly, and no cylinders felt different
than the others.
when it threw the belt i didn't hear any kind of hard slam...
well, had to get her home, so i spent 4 hours replacing the timing belt.
no book, no timing light, basic hand tools. :/
above the crank pully there are 3 points on a bracket. i lined the notch in the crank pully up with the notch closest to the passenger compartment.
the cam pully notch was ligned up with the pointer thingy on the right hand motor mount.
could find no index marks at all on the auxillary shaft, so i eyeballed it with the rotor just coming on to the #1 distributor cap contact when the motor is at tdc.
needed a jump start to get it started (i think i have a bad battery) ....
started right up. idles a bit low (900 instead of 1000) but she sounded okay.
packed my stuff up and headed home...
about 5 miles out of puyallup the temp guage is sitting at 200 deg, at about where the radiator fans normally kick on. i didn't hear 'em or feel them come on, but it doesn't mean they didn't / don't..
70 mph all the way home... seemed fine, but my recollection is that for 85-90 degrees outside she's running hot...
no detonation that i could hear, power seems about normal...
had a little foam in the coolant when i pulled over to check the coolant, but after flushing it out of the expansion tank i didn't get any more, so i think the cooling system might have been a bit low... at 70 the temp stayed solid at 190 for the trip home.
so, the car is an 81, i think it's the original engine.
the 2 questions i have are a) do the pistons hit the valves on this model, and 2) is the heat problem because the valves are bent, or because the timing's off or?
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Fiat fun<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000, 2:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think if the valves contacted the pistons, there would be no doubt about it! Your timing could contribute to running hot, but 190 really seems OK by my book. What did it used to run at? Mark
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->well...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 1:12 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->when i was sitting at the traffic light it climbed up to about 220 or so, and a lot of this could just be paranoia and tha fact that it was a damnned hot day. i think the car might have had a minor electrical problem that is manifesting itself now at the same time, so i need to dig into it further..
my guess is the timing is way off as a start, and was hopeing to hear something like "oh yeah, that's the problem!"
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->broken belt problems<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 2000, 3:07 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stock 1500s are "safe", the valves won't hit the pistions if the belt breaks.
As for the overheating, you may have set the ignition timing too advanced. That would account for having to jumpstart the car (too much advance will act like a low battery). Also, too much advance will make the car run hot. Typically, it will also raise the idle some. The idle being low could be accounted for by the ignition timing being retarded slightly, but you would probably notice a loss in performance.
Recheck the cam and ignition timing, either or both may be out.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks steve...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 1:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
all of my experience with these cars is 79's and earliers. i didn't realys "any" 1500 was not an interference motor...
/me thinks about the big valve headed stock pistoned 1500 with the polished pistons that threw the timing belt, and decides it's time to break it open, since the cam was stock it should be fine
so, by my description is the cam timing correct?
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Actually, no.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 8:14 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I had to go back and re-read your description of how you timed the cam. I don't know how I missed it the first time. You timed it like a 1300, but that doesn't work on the 1500. The 1500 cam timing mark is on the back side of the pully. Line it up with the notch in the cutout at the top of the timing belt cover backing plate. For the crank use the longest pointer (the one you used is the correct one), but better yet, use the mark on the flywheel. 1500s have an "adjustable" pointer for the front pully.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1500's and timing<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 9:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My carbed 79 has the timing mark on the front of the cam pulley, and I time it from the tab on the engine mount. Nothing adjustable about it!
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->uhhh..<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 25 2000, 11:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->so that means it's runnign with the cam 90 degrees out or something? eeeek
-dd
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->X owner's nightmare!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 2:39 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Chucking the cam timing belt off must be an exxy owner's biggest fear! After reading Kevin's post I felt a shiver go up my back, as I am still wondering what keeps the cam belt centralized on the pulleys and prevents it from riding off the pulleys. When replacing the cambelt on my 1300 X a few months ago, I couldn't see any belt guides on any of the pulleys (similar to what Japanese engines have on the crankshaft pulley). Surely it doesn't rely on the plastic belt cover to hold it in line - or that annoying projection on the cover that goes under the tensioner (that I cut off (gulp!)so I could get the cover back on). Can someone ease my mind and tell me what stops the belt flying off, as Kevin just described? cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: X owners Nightmare!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 3:20 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Probably the same thing that keeps the timing belt on the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 engines. Mainly tension and the design of the belt. In other words, a flat toothed belt on a wide crank/camshaft gear will not go any where provided that the face of both the cam gear and the crankshaft gear remain parallel to each other and the belt has the proper tension.
Too much tension and it runs too the outside of the gear, too little and it drifts towards the inside.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->timing belt worries<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 19 2000, 9:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->No need to worry the front crankshaft dampner will prevent it from coming off in all but the worst circumstances. Tension and design keep it from running off. The cover is strictly to keep foreign objects from interfering with the belts operation. Many of a VW rabbits thirtieth owner have bemoaned the lack of timing belt cover and had to cough up the two hundred bucks it cost for a new junker. If you belt does slide forward or back due to lack of tension then you will hear a very loud rubbing sound that varies with remarkable similarity to the motor rpm. So fear not, this kind of failure is much more forgiving than the usual lack of maintenance; I will change that belt next weekend kind of failure.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->rabbit belts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 9:08 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Actually, Rabbits had non-interference engines. Then when the 16v's came along it became a worry. And now of course I think it's always a concern. But not for early Rabbits, even FI'd ones.
I know from, er, experience.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds like...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 11:04 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Ian-
I may be able to help... My experience is limited to 1500's, and I am assuming that the belt setup is similar (can anyone confirm this?)
When you had it apart, did you replace the tensioner bearing? If so, the housing that the bearing sits in has a little pin on it that fits in a hole on the block. It is possible to reinstall the bearing and holder without having this pin lined up (I did it). When that happens, the bearing face that is in contact with the belt will tilt a few degrees out (not very far, and it is hard to tell by eye). It IS enough to make it throw the belt. On the upshod, it's very easy to fix... just pull the bearing, and align it properly.
If you didn't changethe bearing, I'd recommend that you do... mine was totally shot... was hardly turning.
Hope this helps,
Doc<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->whoops, should be to kevin, not ian - my bad <NT>
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 11:06 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Are you sure<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 4:24 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My 75 1300 Canadian spec ( I've yet to find a difference with a 49 states) has a "guide" on the cam shaft pully, the belt just fits on it and cannot slide sideways
Cheers
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: are you sure?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 2000, 5:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Mike - yes, very sure that there is no 'guide' or anything similar on the camshaft pulley on my car ('78 1300 X - UK spec). When fitting the new cambelt on the engine, I can remember thinking that something must be missing that prevents the belt riding off the pulleys (a la crank pulley guides on Honda's). But there didn't appear to be anywhere where something may have fallen off or been left off at some earlier time. According to the very well kept service records that came with my X, I am pretty sure that it had not had a cambelt replaced since new - 49000 miles on the car when I got it - the belt that came off it was definitely OE (Fiat branded anyway). So I crossed fingers and let 'er rip! Looking thru the little space under the tin cover behind the camshaft pulley, the belt doesn't appear to have moved at all after about 1500 miles since I replaced it, so I hope all is well. And some of the earlier threads to this post make me feel happier!!
.Just another oddity about X's! cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->What keeps the belt on the pulleys<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 2000, 1:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I asked myself the same question when I installed a Yugo pulley on my car which doesn't have lips on the pulley unlike my original one (with air pump).
When I had the idler off, I layed a ruler across its surface and found that it is very slightly concave. This provides enough force to keep the belt centered.
I have had problems twice with the belt walking to one side.
The first time, I had some rubber deposits on the idler.
The second time, the new belt was bad! I installed another belt and the problem was gone. I assume that the teeth weren't quite perpendicular to the belt...
Ulix <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Re: What keeps the belt on the pulleys?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 21 2000, 7:18 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Ulix - OK, that sounds like a smart piece of engineering by Mr Fiat!! So when the idler gets renewed from time to time, there is a nice new concave surface for the new belt to follow - sounds like good sense to me! (I wonder if non-genuine idler bearings have this feature - pays to stick with genuine parts, huh!). BTW, got your email re the stickers now on their way, thanks. Looking forward to receiving them. cheers, ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->belt gears & guide lips - there IS a centering method!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 12:17 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->X1/9s over the years (and across different markets) have come with different styles of timing gears. There have been variations of the cam, crank & aux shaft gears, even variations on the crank pulley (where the alternator belt rides) - these combinations of gears & pulleys are designed to all work together as a team to keep the timing belt riding straight, so it is important that the right gears are used together... as I found out!
I learned this while rebuilding my '75's engine. The original cam gear was one of those stupid US-spec split gears, with a second track on it for a smog pump belt. I had eliminated the smog pump, and did not want to put this double-gear back on, so I went & snagged the nice metal gears from a late Yugo engine (which I later figured out are basically configured the same as later 1500 X gears). The Yugo gears were identical in diameter & tooth to the 1300 X gears I was taking off...
BUT there were differences! On the '75's original gears, the aux shaft gear had a lip on the outside (away from block) edge, and the little timing gear on the crank had a lip on the inside (toward block). Together these 2 lips (and a tight tensioner bearing) are what keeps the belt from walking off. It was only later, though, that I figured out that even the crank PULLEY is different with these gear sets!
The new cam gear had no lips on either side, so obviously it is not doing any centering work. As I said, the old aux gear had a lip on the outside, the old crank gear had one on the inside.
Well, the Yugo crank gear also had a lip on the inside, but the Yugo aux shaft gear had no lip at all! Hmmn. I went ahead to "see what happens"...
I took all of the old X gears off, and replaced them with the Yugo gears...
So I now had the new crank, aux & cam gears from the Yugo on my X. I had the engine on a stand & put the stock X crank pulley on over the Yugo crank gear, and put the timing belt on to crank it all over by hand for a check. Well, the belt immediately started to walk right off the outside of the cam gear, which caused it to start rubbing on the inside of the crank pulley!! NOT GOOD
I took it all apart to find out why the belt could no longer track straight. AT FIRST, I thought it was because the new aux shaft gear had no lip on the outside like the old one did. BUT that was not entirely it!!
It was half of the reason, but the other half of the reason was that I used the original 1300 X crank pulley with the new gears, and it is only designed to work with the set that has the lipped aux gear.
Let me explain: On the set that has a lipped aux gear, the aux gear prevents outside walk-off, so the crank pulley has basically a tiny protrusion to butt up against the crank gear. It doesn't matter if the t-belt can move over far enough to touch the backside of the pulley, because the lip on the aux shaft prevents this.
BUT when I put the new gears on, including the aux gear with no lip, there was now nothing to stop the belt from walking over & contacting the backside of the crank pulley, which is BAD
So I went & got the crank pulley from the Yugo, to see if there was a difference, and there was!!
The new crank pulley has a much larger & wider protrusion on the back, big enough to act like a lip against the outside of the crank gear when they are put together on the crank, so then the crank gear would keep the belt from walking inward, and (of all things) the crank pulley now (instead of the aux gear) would keep the belt from walking outward.
I was surprised by this. I swapped the original X pulley out for the Yugo pulley, which was designed to mate with the other Yugo gears I had installed, and that was it! Even with the tensioner loose, the belt would not walk off center now, in either direction.
BTW, I did not notice any concavity to any of these gears. I could be wrong, but I think that if the gear looks concave it might be worn. Mine all appear to be perfectly straight surfaced on all facets. Just thought I would mention it.
Anyway, so that is what I believe to be the answer: on 1300s, the crank gear lip keeps the belt from walking in, and the aux shaft gear lip keeps it from walking out. On 1500s, the crank gear still keeps the belt from walking in, but it is the backside of the crank pulley (of all things) that keeps it from walking out, because the aux gear has no lip.
Just my own experiences, "your results may vary"
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ye gods, what have we started here?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 22 2000, 2:51 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->After reading Mac's post, I think I will hook the dreaded timing cover off my car on the w/end and resurvey the whole scene!!! PS - no wonder Jap engines don't chuck cambelts off! ian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]