<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]To start or not to start, that is the mystery<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 17 2001 at 1:19 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Dick Dauksys"); // --> </SCRIPT>Dick Dauksys <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Need help,suggestions for my 1985 Bertone (58,000 miles), please. All of a sudden - god, sounds like I'm starting a novel-my faithful Bertone has been letting me down. Periodically, it will not start. Turn the ignition key and absolutely nothing. It has happened right after driving for 20-30 minutes, as well as after being in the garage over night. I have checked out the battery, alternator and bought a new coil. When it does start, it's a mystery. Replacing the coil, for instance was not a fix. It did not start after replacement. Some of the conditions I have experienced are as follows.
a. The 1st time it happened, my wife drove the Bertone home from work, the following morning I was going to take it for a spin and on turning the ignition key, nothing. No noise, no starter solenoid clicking, nothing. Battery checked out fine. After occasionally trying to get the car started over a period of days, still nothing. Frustrated, I decided to move the car into the garage. I had the key in the ignition in the on position and the transmission in neutral. While pushing, the car perhaps was pushed 15 feet, I noticed the interior door lights come on(and the windshield wipers). I got back in the car, turned the key and it started right up.
Note: The interior door lights are a key indicator as to whether the car will start or not. The lights should automatically come on when the door is opened, if they do not come on, I know the car will not start.
The other day, I had been driving for 20-30 minutes and when I stopped the car and turned the ignition to off, I noticed as I opened the door, that the door lights did not come on. Sure enough, the car was dead. I thought I was in a real pickle since I was in a remote area. Walked around the Old Lady, trying to think if there was a river or deep ravine I could deep six her in. After about 20 minutes, "power" was restored (interior door lights came on) and I was able to make it home. _I did notice for the 1st time that the Electronic Ignition Control Module (EICM) was quite hot to the touch._
My thought is that perhaps the culprit is the EICM, but I fear that something else may be causing the EICM to crap out or maybe I'm way off base. I'd hate to purchase the EICM which costs a bunch (~$450 for OEM part) only to find out it was that something else.
Anyone out there have similar experience? Anyway to check out the EICM? Suggestions, please.
Dick D. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steven Lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->simple problem<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 17 2001, 2:22 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->If the dome light doesn't come on then it is pure and simple. You are not getting any power from the battery to the rest of the car.
Check that the battery connections are tight, you shouldn't be able to turn them. Make sure the negative wire from the battery is tight where it fastens to the firewall. Make sure that the wires look in good condition, not full of corrosion. Drop the fuse panel and check that connector "C20" isn't burned/brown (fastened to the tunnel side of the fuse panel)
If all that checks out, then chances are the battery itself has an internal break and should be replaced.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rory[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Exactly...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 1:00 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Check the battery connections first. I'll bet that will solve your problem. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->here's my guess<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 9:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi and welcome to the forums! Hope you'll stick around
You could be right about the ECU, but I would hesitate to think the unit itself is bad. I mean, it is possible that there could be an intermittent internal fault, but there are many potentially simpler (read: cheaper!) suspects to check out first...
As was mentioned by Steven & Rory, start at the battery. Give the cables a once or twice over, make sure there's nothing obviously amiss with the cables etc. Swapping the battery out if you already have a similar one handy would be a quick way to convict or clear the current (no pun) unit as the culprit, but if you'd have to go buy one to swap in, I would check some other things first...
Here's one, of course you want to check the fuses. Drop the fuse panel down and check not only whether fuses are intact, but also the condition of the fuse panel contacts, and the connectors where the various wiring plugs in. Look to see if there are any connections that are highly corroded, rusty or just really ugly in general
Clean what you may find wrong with a small wire brush and you can use some electrical contact grease or similar on reassembly.
If you are the backyarder type, and have no contact grease, you could spray the fuse panel contacts with WD40 and spin all the fuses, turning them with a finger to ensure contact at the terminal ends. The WD can wet dried crusty terminal connections and can help seal out moisture, but the downside of WD is that it stinks (!) and doesn't last very long. Real electrical contact grease is much better, but WD works well in a pinch - this trick got Holly's '74 X to start & go over 100 miles the very day we bought it (it had been sitting with the fuse panel full of water!)
After the battery & fuse panel checks, do this: Take the bottom half off of the plastic steering column shroud. When you do, inside there is the ignition switch and associated wiring. Do not be surprised if you open that thing to discover the plastic multiwire connector plugs inside to be cooked or melted. The ignition plug overheating is a common fault that could cause you intermittent loss of power. Could be the switch itself as well, but don't replace that just yet...
Check the condition of the ECU plug. If it appears to have been wet at some point (or is wet now) give it the contact-cleaning treatment as well and then be absolutely certain that the big wiring harness plug is securely attached at both ends (!) to the ECU. It should 'click' down on both sides of the connector. When I got my '80 X1/9 (one of the early FI Xs) it was having a similarly distressing symptom, stalling out utterly and at random. It turned out to be the ECU plug was only snapped down at the far end, leaving the near end to just make intermittent contact - and like yours, it would pick the darndest places to crap out
Let us know what happens, and if you need more just ask!
-Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steven Lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->good advice for future<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 12:48 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Everything Mac listed are very good points for the next electrical weirdness you face. Each of these are trouble spots that will act up sooner or later (especially the fuse holders getting weak/corroded, and the connector from the keyswitch burning).
Your problem is occuring before any of this. As the interior lights get power even with the key off, it eliminates 99% of the electrical system. There isn't a whole lot of stuff between the battery and the interior lights. Since the whole car is lifeless while the interior lights are acting up, the problem lies between the battery and its ground, or the battery to the fuse panel. (since the car doesn't die once running, I'll even say the path to the fuse panel is fine - the alternator can still power the car). Suspect battery ground, posts, or battery itself.
Now, print out Mac's posting and put it in your glovebox. One of his suggestions will almost certainly be the next problem you have!
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Tony..."); // --> </SCRIPT>Tony... <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Everything they said and...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 6:55 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Check the fuse "contact tension" insuring the fuses are not kinda rattling in their connections.
I had this occur once with me where about 4 or 5 fuses all became loose at once. I removed the fuses, bent the contacts closed a bit, and reinstalled. Never had another problem.
Lastly, the next thing I'm about to say is NOT totally symptomatic with what you have described but had me dancing around my car for three weeks.
ENSURE THE GROUND STRAP BETWEEN THE TRANS AND THE BODY IS CLEAN AND TIGHT! (It can be found just behind the back of the LR tire...)
good luck... let us know what ya find!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Gilles[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I agree with Steven, it did also happen to me!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 20 2001, 11:27 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Dick:
I had exactly the same problem and drove me crazy until one day I couldn't make it work any more.
I agree with Steven, open the fuse box and look at the very bottom (close to the left latch bolt) you will find a thick brown wire that connects into a square plastic "Thing"
This brown wire powers all the fuse box, inside this plastic square you will have a plug that connects that brown wire with a couple more wires, can't remember the colors (maybe red?) On mine the connector was melted but was not easy to see since it is inside the plastic casing.
Won't hurt to check good luck, Gilles
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Dick"); // --> </SCRIPT>Dick <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->To start or not to start, that is the mystery<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]March 1 2001, 10:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The suggestions from Steve and Gilles about the C-20 connector (in the drop down fuse panel, under passenger side glove compartment) was right on. The corrosion (brown wire) was extensive and it appears all 3 wires that fit in the black connector box got very hot, slightly burning the terminal covers on the wires. One could not see the corrosion or burnt terminal coverings, until the wires were actually pulled from the terminal box. If it were not for your suggestions, I would never have found it. Probably could have started a nice fire, eventually.
I cleaned everything up, had to destroy the black connector box to get at the terminal posts. The box was also slightly charred. I pushed the terminals on and wrapped all with electrical tape. Prior to this, I would always get a sizeable voltage drop when I put the headlights on or heater/cooling fan. I thought this was a natural phenomenon, Now the voltage meter is midlined and virtually steady, and oh, the car has started faithfully on demand.
Still bothersome is the Electronic Ignition Control Module (ECM) which gets very hot after a few miles of driving. Is this natural?? And I noticed while driving, the now cleaned and taped C-20 terminals get quite hot when I put the headlights on. If the headlights are off, the terminals are more or less comfortable to the touch. As I mentioned earlier, prior to the "fix," there was always a very large voltage drop when I put the headlights on and it would continue to remain low, almost redlining when at idle at traffic lights. Any thoughts.
Again much thanks for the help, for a potentially dangerous situation. Still concerned about what appears to be an electrical overheating problem(s). Comments? Suggestions?
Dick <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 17 2001 at 1:19 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Dick Dauksys"); // --> </SCRIPT>Dick Dauksys <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Need help,suggestions for my 1985 Bertone (58,000 miles), please. All of a sudden - god, sounds like I'm starting a novel-my faithful Bertone has been letting me down. Periodically, it will not start. Turn the ignition key and absolutely nothing. It has happened right after driving for 20-30 minutes, as well as after being in the garage over night. I have checked out the battery, alternator and bought a new coil. When it does start, it's a mystery. Replacing the coil, for instance was not a fix. It did not start after replacement. Some of the conditions I have experienced are as follows.
a. The 1st time it happened, my wife drove the Bertone home from work, the following morning I was going to take it for a spin and on turning the ignition key, nothing. No noise, no starter solenoid clicking, nothing. Battery checked out fine. After occasionally trying to get the car started over a period of days, still nothing. Frustrated, I decided to move the car into the garage. I had the key in the ignition in the on position and the transmission in neutral. While pushing, the car perhaps was pushed 15 feet, I noticed the interior door lights come on(and the windshield wipers). I got back in the car, turned the key and it started right up.
Note: The interior door lights are a key indicator as to whether the car will start or not. The lights should automatically come on when the door is opened, if they do not come on, I know the car will not start.
The other day, I had been driving for 20-30 minutes and when I stopped the car and turned the ignition to off, I noticed as I opened the door, that the door lights did not come on. Sure enough, the car was dead. I thought I was in a real pickle since I was in a remote area. Walked around the Old Lady, trying to think if there was a river or deep ravine I could deep six her in. After about 20 minutes, "power" was restored (interior door lights came on) and I was able to make it home. _I did notice for the 1st time that the Electronic Ignition Control Module (EICM) was quite hot to the touch._
My thought is that perhaps the culprit is the EICM, but I fear that something else may be causing the EICM to crap out or maybe I'm way off base. I'd hate to purchase the EICM which costs a bunch (~$450 for OEM part) only to find out it was that something else.
Anyone out there have similar experience? Anyway to check out the EICM? Suggestions, please.
Dick D. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->simple problem<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 17 2001, 2:22 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->If the dome light doesn't come on then it is pure and simple. You are not getting any power from the battery to the rest of the car.
Check that the battery connections are tight, you shouldn't be able to turn them. Make sure the negative wire from the battery is tight where it fastens to the firewall. Make sure that the wires look in good condition, not full of corrosion. Drop the fuse panel and check that connector "C20" isn't burned/brown (fastened to the tunnel side of the fuse panel)
If all that checks out, then chances are the battery itself has an internal break and should be replaced.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Exactly...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 1:00 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Check the battery connections first. I'll bet that will solve your problem. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->here's my guess<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 9:11 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi and welcome to the forums! Hope you'll stick around
You could be right about the ECU, but I would hesitate to think the unit itself is bad. I mean, it is possible that there could be an intermittent internal fault, but there are many potentially simpler (read: cheaper!) suspects to check out first...
As was mentioned by Steven & Rory, start at the battery. Give the cables a once or twice over, make sure there's nothing obviously amiss with the cables etc. Swapping the battery out if you already have a similar one handy would be a quick way to convict or clear the current (no pun) unit as the culprit, but if you'd have to go buy one to swap in, I would check some other things first...
Here's one, of course you want to check the fuses. Drop the fuse panel down and check not only whether fuses are intact, but also the condition of the fuse panel contacts, and the connectors where the various wiring plugs in. Look to see if there are any connections that are highly corroded, rusty or just really ugly in general
If you are the backyarder type, and have no contact grease, you could spray the fuse panel contacts with WD40 and spin all the fuses, turning them with a finger to ensure contact at the terminal ends. The WD can wet dried crusty terminal connections and can help seal out moisture, but the downside of WD is that it stinks (!) and doesn't last very long. Real electrical contact grease is much better, but WD works well in a pinch - this trick got Holly's '74 X to start & go over 100 miles the very day we bought it (it had been sitting with the fuse panel full of water!)
After the battery & fuse panel checks, do this: Take the bottom half off of the plastic steering column shroud. When you do, inside there is the ignition switch and associated wiring. Do not be surprised if you open that thing to discover the plastic multiwire connector plugs inside to be cooked or melted. The ignition plug overheating is a common fault that could cause you intermittent loss of power. Could be the switch itself as well, but don't replace that just yet...
Check the condition of the ECU plug. If it appears to have been wet at some point (or is wet now) give it the contact-cleaning treatment as well and then be absolutely certain that the big wiring harness plug is securely attached at both ends (!) to the ECU. It should 'click' down on both sides of the connector. When I got my '80 X1/9 (one of the early FI Xs) it was having a similarly distressing symptom, stalling out utterly and at random. It turned out to be the ECU plug was only snapped down at the far end, leaving the near end to just make intermittent contact - and like yours, it would pick the darndest places to crap out
Let us know what happens, and if you need more just ask!
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->good advice for future<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 12:48 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Everything Mac listed are very good points for the next electrical weirdness you face. Each of these are trouble spots that will act up sooner or later (especially the fuse holders getting weak/corroded, and the connector from the keyswitch burning).
Your problem is occuring before any of this. As the interior lights get power even with the key off, it eliminates 99% of the electrical system. There isn't a whole lot of stuff between the battery and the interior lights. Since the whole car is lifeless while the interior lights are acting up, the problem lies between the battery and its ground, or the battery to the fuse panel. (since the car doesn't die once running, I'll even say the path to the fuse panel is fine - the alternator can still power the car). Suspect battery ground, posts, or battery itself.
Now, print out Mac's posting and put it in your glovebox. One of his suggestions will almost certainly be the next problem you have!
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Everything they said and...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 18 2001, 6:55 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Check the fuse "contact tension" insuring the fuses are not kinda rattling in their connections.
I had this occur once with me where about 4 or 5 fuses all became loose at once. I removed the fuses, bent the contacts closed a bit, and reinstalled. Never had another problem.
Lastly, the next thing I'm about to say is NOT totally symptomatic with what you have described but had me dancing around my car for three weeks.
ENSURE THE GROUND STRAP BETWEEN THE TRANS AND THE BODY IS CLEAN AND TIGHT! (It can be found just behind the back of the LR tire...)
good luck... let us know what ya find!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I agree with Steven, it did also happen to me!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 20 2001, 11:27 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Dick:
I had exactly the same problem and drove me crazy until one day I couldn't make it work any more.
I agree with Steven, open the fuse box and look at the very bottom (close to the left latch bolt) you will find a thick brown wire that connects into a square plastic "Thing"
This brown wire powers all the fuse box, inside this plastic square you will have a plug that connects that brown wire with a couple more wires, can't remember the colors (maybe red?) On mine the connector was melted but was not easy to see since it is inside the plastic casing.
Won't hurt to check good luck, Gilles
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->To start or not to start, that is the mystery<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]March 1 2001, 10:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The suggestions from Steve and Gilles about the C-20 connector (in the drop down fuse panel, under passenger side glove compartment) was right on. The corrosion (brown wire) was extensive and it appears all 3 wires that fit in the black connector box got very hot, slightly burning the terminal covers on the wires. One could not see the corrosion or burnt terminal coverings, until the wires were actually pulled from the terminal box. If it were not for your suggestions, I would never have found it. Probably could have started a nice fire, eventually.
I cleaned everything up, had to destroy the black connector box to get at the terminal posts. The box was also slightly charred. I pushed the terminals on and wrapped all with electrical tape. Prior to this, I would always get a sizeable voltage drop when I put the headlights on or heater/cooling fan. I thought this was a natural phenomenon, Now the voltage meter is midlined and virtually steady, and oh, the car has started faithfully on demand.
Still bothersome is the Electronic Ignition Control Module (ECM) which gets very hot after a few miles of driving. Is this natural?? And I noticed while driving, the now cleaned and taped C-20 terminals get quite hot when I put the headlights on. If the headlights are off, the terminals are more or less comfortable to the touch. As I mentioned earlier, prior to the "fix," there was always a very large voltage drop when I put the headlights on and it would continue to remain low, almost redlining when at idle at traffic lights. Any thoughts.
Again much thanks for the help, for a potentially dangerous situation. Still concerned about what appears to be an electrical overheating problem(s). Comments? Suggestions?
Dick <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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