Torque Specs for Custom/Alloy Wheels

Red Bull 78

Red Bull 78

True Classic
I used the Factory Manual Specs of 45 ft lbs for the Wheel Studs with my Cromodora Mag Rims. Within 50 miles, when I went to take the wheels off to finish the Brake job, the Lugs felt way too loose.
I know alloy wheels need to be re-torqued, soon after first install, but just 50 miles? The Cromo's were either a factory or dealer option, as far as I know, so their should be a Standard, somewhere.
 
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Red Bull 78 said:
I used the Factory Manual Specs of 45 ft lbs for the Wheel Studs with my Cromodora Mag Rims. Within 50 miles, when I went to take the wheels off to finish the Brake job, the Lugs felt way too loose.
I know alloy wheels need to be re-torqued, soon after first install, but just 50 miles? The Cromo's were either a factory or dealer option, as far as I know, so their should be a Standard, somewhere.
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Which version of the factory manual did that 45 number come from? I've been using 75 for years without problem, and 45 feels way low to me.
 
With Alloy Wheels, it's 65 lb/ft.

But I've always torqued them to 80 lb/ft, as at the recommend 65 lb/ft, they didn't always stay tight. With the higher torque, you shouldn't have to retorqe them at all.
 
Drunky Posting Strikes Again.

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EricH said:
Which version of the factory manual did that 45 number come from? I've been using 75 for years without problem, and 45 feels way low to me.
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:doh::nuts: The GEO Metro One.:grin::confuse2:
I realize my mistake while working tonite and something on the Geo starting "clicking" when I turned. I keep my Torque Wrench with me for just this reason and it was still set at 50.6 from my recent Brake job on the "X".
This time, it turned out to be a small twig that had gotten wedged in the chassis, catching on the spokes of my American Racing Estrellas.

Having four cars makes me crazy. Too many numbers to remember. That's why I keep the books handy when I'm working on them. But I torqued them to 50.6 ft lbs., like it says on page 141, but the problem remains the same.
Based on the replies, I'm guessing this value is for the "steelies" and I'm still 15-25 lbs on the "lite" side of SAFETY.

I've got to brush up on my Wheel & Tire info.
When i was a commercial tire man, FORTY YEARS AGO, I was the "NEW" Guy in the shop. I've changed everything from Golf Cart to Off Road Coal Mine truck tires I could stand up inside of. But, back in those days, when someone bought a fancy set of "Custom" Mags, one of the "old timers" got that job. All these years and all those cars, until I got the "Bull", I never had any "alloy" wheels on anything. Just some Chrome Reversed that came on a '63 VW Beetle, somewhere around 1977. when I had my Black, 76 "X".
Since then, I've added some aluminum rims to the GEO and they worked loose, too, at 45 lbs. That's why that number was on my brain when I made to OP.
Thanks Guys.
 
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Just So You Guys Will Know

I ain't smokin' that Wacky Weed, here in the Bluegrass State. :wink2::grin:.


My Copy has the '77 Electrical Wiring Schematic and a Whoopin' 2 Page Supplement on MY '78 added.
Looks like it's also missing a few other Updates, too.
 
Red Bull 78 said:
I ain't smokin' that Wacky Weed, here in the Bluegrass State. :wink2::grin:.
http://s949.photobucket.com/user/thart10/media/X1_9SuspensionSpecs_zpsd2527df6.jpg.html

My Copy has the '77 Electrical Wiring Schematic and a Whoopin' 2 Page Supplement on MY '78 added.
Looks like it's also missing a few other Updates, too.
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The factory must have mistakenly copied the specs over from a fiat 500 ;) ... or in 1974 wheel studs were grade 1.0 .. .

I use a torque wrench on the race car especially when other crew are torquing, but by myself I always just make wheel studs tight with a 2' breaker bar, never had a problem that way.
 
bikesandcars said:
The factory must have mistakenly copied the specs over from a fiat 500 ;) ... or in 1974 wheel studs were grade 1.0 .. .

I use a torque wrench on the race car especially when other crew are torquing, but by myself I always just make wheel studs tight with a 2' breaker bar, never had a problem that way.
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Don't blame the "Factory". This is an ebay "copy" that somebody reprinted, obviously without, "Checking and Re-Checking the Facts".
I survive! I Learn! Buyer BEWARE!.
 
Warped Rotors???

bikesandcars said:
. . . I use a torque wrench on the race car especially when other crew are torquing, but by myself I always just make wheel studs tight with a 2' breaker bar, never had a problem that way.
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Uneven torque can cause warped Brake Rotors on some cars. With little over 10 mm to work with, I suspect this is also true on the "X 1/9".
I do Brake Jobs because I "have too", not because I like them.
I prefer making things "GO". rather than STOP!

I've got a stripped Lug hole in my RR Hub, With only 16 bolts, just three left on that wheel, between me and the road, I don't like the odds.
One hard turn and I could crack a $250 Cromo Mag wheel.
Somebody determined how many bolts were needed and the Torque Specs for a reason.
I might rationalize that trade off on my "Beater", but I'm about to mount tires that have a potential 100% MORE Surface contact patch than the original tire specs for this car. 145 to 185. When the tires "STICK", that Stress has to be dealt with somewhere else. Where do you engineer "In", that next "weakest link"?
 
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Red Bull 78 said:
Uneven torque can cause warped Brake Rotors on some cars. With little over 10 mm to work with, I suspect this is also true on the "X 1/9".
I do Brake Jobs because I "have too", not because I like them.
I prefer making things "GO". rather than STOP!

I've got a stripped Lug hole in my RR Hub, With only 16 bolts, just three left on that wheel, between me and the road, I don't like the odds.
One hard turn and I could crack a $250 Cromo Mag wheel.
Somebody determined how many bolts were needed and the Torque Specs for a reason.
I might rationalize that trade off on my "Beater", but I'm about to mount tires that have a potential 100% MORE Surface contact patch than the original tire specs for this car. 145 to 185. When the tires "STICK", that Stress has to be dealt with somewhere else. Where do you engineer "In", that next "weakest link"?
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Well said, you and Mr. Ettore Bugatti seem to agree! ... though I suspect in his case he was just being defensive about his poorly engineered brakes.

Much of hand torqueing depends on how good your human wrench-sense is, and your tolerance for "risk"... A torque wrench is a good tool and generally a great idea :)
 
Some times I "Maze" Micelf

bikesandcars said:
Well said, you and Mr. Ettore Bugatti seem to agree! ... though I suspect in his case he was just being defensive about his poorly engineered brakes. :)
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Now for the BAD NEWS!
I installed the 5 mm Spacers on the front and torqued all Lug Bolts to 75 lbs. Now I have THREE Stripped Out Bolt Holes in my RF Hub. :wall:
Before anyone says anything, I'm using BRAND NEW, #405 - 8.8 Lug Bolts all around.
Now I start looking for Hubs, I guess.:rolleyes:
 
75 is high, but I've used that spec for track days. 65 is recommended. Make sure they're the correct pitch. Sorry for your trouble.

Also, you might consider studs at this point. :geek:
 
It wasn't the 75 lbs that did it.

budgetzagato said:
75 is high, but I've used that spec for track days. 65 is recommended. Make sure they're the correct pitch. Sorry for your trouble.

Also, you might consider studs at this point. :geek:
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They were gone soon after the 50.6 ft lbs I'd used before.
Too many Ham Handed, "Hand Jobs" is My Diagnois.:nuts::sad:

Now, I get to fix that, too!:fart::shock2::wall::eyepop:
 
Red Bull 78 said:
They were gone soon after the 50.6 ft lbs I'd used before.
Too many Ham Handed, "Hand Jobs" is My Diagnosis.
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Yep - no way should 75 lb-ft strip those female threads if they're in good shape (The local autocrossers won't even let me on the course with less than that). Abuse and corrosion, I'd bet.

If you replace the hub, you'll need to replace the bearing as well. This can be an easy fun job or a real PITA depending on how recalcitrant the ring nut that holds the bearing in place is and whether you can buy, borrow, or mock up the tool for that nut.

Matt will sell you a complete hub+carrier+bearing assembly if you feel like you're already far enough down the rabbit hole.
 
Red Bull 78 said:
Considering it's only a 4 x 98 bolt circle, there's not a lot left near the outer circumference of the Hub to begin with, to even think about biting into more of it.
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+1 on that. IMO the design flaw is less the placement of the holes and more the use of lug bolts instead of studs, which just about guarantees that the female threads get a lot of abuse. The position of the holes is OK until you need to repair the threads, and then the hub is trash because they can't be repaired. Use studs and it wouldn't matter.
 
Seems like a competent machine shop...

EricH said:
The position of the holes is OK until you need to repair the threads, and then the hub is trash because they can't be repaired.
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could drill 4 new holes spaced 45 degrees from the existing holes, and save the hub.

However, when looking around for wheel solutions and trying to get something made in a 4x98 or modify the hub for 4x100, no machine shop I called would touch anything to do with car brakes or wheels. Litigiphobia I suppose.

Pete
 
Couldn't a handy person simply enlarge the holes as needed for press-in studs? The kind that go in from the rear? This is how the studs are installed in my Vanagon hubs.
 
There's no meat at the edge...

budgetzagato said:
Couldn't a handy person simply enlarge the holes as needed for press-in studs? The kind that go in from the rear? This is how the studs are installed in my Vanagon hubs.
Click to expand...

It looks to me like there is only a mm or two of material between the edge of the hole and the head. So you would have to find press-ins that are very close in size. You would also need to make sure the head of the press-in had clearance on the back side. Then there's the issue of enlarging the hole concentrically in an accurate manner, to preserve a concentric 4x98, 90x90 degree bolt circle. In my opinion, you'd have to be past handy for that. You would have to have the tools, time and talent for it. A milling machine with an accurate rotary table would be best for this type of work.

Pete
 
Hub Repair Issues

This is the best file photo i have of a hub. What you see is what you get.
When trying to drill out the holes and mount Studs from the backside, you run into serious clearance issues with the Rotor, back there.



Once you get the studs mounted in the hub, you'll probably have to grind down parts of them to clear the Rotor.
I don't know if I'd trust what was left of the Hub on the street, much less the track.
I've already been in one of these cars when things went bad and I didn't like it a bit. Luckily I don't remember the worst parts.

EDIT: What Else Could Go Wrong Here?


Meet my next Enemy, "Rusty Stubs". :laugh:
 
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