<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Tranny Rebuild - again<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001 at 2:13 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Damon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Damon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Hello All. My buddy gave me his 87 X1/9
to keep my 86 X1/9 company. Anyway, here's
the deal....
A couple of years back he hit a pothole
and knocked a hole in his tranny. I
had a 5-speed that I had just taken
out of a parts car, rebuilt not too long
ago. (assume it was not rebuilt by a
fiat-competent shop) Well we got it almost
installed and he ended up taking it down
to a shop (known fiat incompetent) to
finish it up. This shop had to open up
the tranny for something (I forget what).
SO we have an X with the tranny monkeyed
with twice... Well my buddy is able to
drive it for like 3 months and then 2nd
gear becomes permanently engaged.
Like if you put the stick in neutral, it's
still second gear. If you shift into
another gear, second is still engaged and
you get the whole thing to bind up (essentially
park)
Now it's been a while since I have dug into the
maual transaxle, but I remeber there being some
particular spot to be careful on to prevent the
transmission from binding. The servie manual states
that a 4-speed synchro will fit into the 5-speed
but it will cause it to bind. What do I need to be
on the lookout for on a rebuild (doing this myself)?
The plan could be to take the parts out of the
broken case unit and put them in the solid case
(the bound tranny). On the bound tranny, the output
shaft is still jammed in the housing - against the
force of the shift rods....
Thoughts on problem areas in the tranny to catch
the glitch that's holding me in second gear ??
PS: does anyone make a posi or limited slip or locker
for the x1/9 ??
Thanks a million!!
-Damon
86 X1/9 JetHot header&intake, PBS flywheel
87 X1/9 cardboard box full of tranny parts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steven Lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmm<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 2:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds like the bolt that holds the shift fork to the rod fell out? I'm sure Steve Hoelscher will be able to hit the nail on the head!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("steve ambrose"); // --> </SCRIPT>steve ambrose <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmmmmm...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 4:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steve H. is the man for you! My first guess and worry would be that it was run low or without gear lube. That will cause one or more of the gears to seize to the output shaft. Just a guess.. whatever it is, you'll see it when you pull it apart. Good luck,
Steve<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Daniel Forest"); // --> </SCRIPT>Daniel Forest <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 5:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Who is Steve Hoelscher? (Just kidding).
Before the master give is advice, I will go with a wild guess. 1-2 slider is dead. So the gear can no longer come out.
Anyway. Whatever the problem is, you need to dismantle the transmission to see what's wrong. It's not so bad if you follow the 5 speed 101 from the library.
Bye!
Daniel
P.S.: Steve? What is the answer?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Does anybody know the words to that song?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 6:12 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sorry
There just seemed to be a lot of hummin' going on here!
And the answer is.... (drum roll)..... The detent plungers were left out. TAAA DAAA!!! See, wasn't that easy.
The detent plungers go in the lower case half between the selector shafts. Their job is when one of the selector shafts moves, the movement of that shaft pushes the detent plunger into the notch machined into the other shafts, effectively locking them in place. This prevents the transmission from being shifted into more than one gear at a time. There is also a little pin called an interlocking pin that sits in a tiny hole in the 3/4 selector shaft (the center one) that causes the 1/2 selector shaft to be locked when shifting into reverse or 5th. Leave the detent plungers out and there is nothing to lock the other shafts in place when one of them is moved by the shifter.
How this transmission got locked in 2nd gear is; when someone tried to shift into reverse, the reverse idler pushed the 1/2 slider into the 2nd gear position because the detent ball was missing. (And the spring loaded detent balls at the other end of the shafts keep it there) But the shifter is now in the reverse position. You can now move the shifter back to neutral but the transmission is still in 2nd gear. Not only that, but now you can't put the shifter in 2nd because the "dog" won't line up with the intermediate linkage. So the tranny is permanently stuck in 2nd, and engaging any other gear now has two gears engaged so the tranny locks up.
You can pull the end plate off the tranny and push the 1/2 selector shaft back down into the neutral position and it should work fine. BUT every time you try to use reverse, it will engage 2nd and you are back to this problem again.
It is actually and easy fix. Split the case and pull the selector rods out, install the detent plungers and an interlocking pin and button it back up. You might want to check the synchros while your in there though.
Incidentally, if 2nd gear got welded to the shaft, it would have the exact same symptoms. And if the tranny hadn't just been rebuilt I would have suspected that might be the problem.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Anonymous[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 11:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the great advice. I'm eager to
tear into this and get another set of
wheels under me. (plus the 10 mpg in my
daily driver is killing me!)
Sounds easy enough to go after the plungers.
The case is torn down almost to that point.
But does it make sense that it could
be driven for a couple of weeks before
this problem occured ?
I believe it was backed into a garage, up
a steep angle, before it finally "bit"
into second gear.
Thanks again!!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->- another possibility ? -<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 4:07 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->How about a broken spring in translater box ?
How bout that one Steve ?
lezesig '79 X 1/9
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Translator box?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 6:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Do you mean the "intermediate linkage". That is the linkage between the main shift rod and the selector rods?
That spring is what provides the centering preload for the shifter. It is not uncommon for that spring to break. When it does, the shifter looses its centering preload. It doesn't affect the function of the gearbox, it just makes the shifter feel sloppy.
The things that could cause the problem are the missing detent plungers, 2nd gear welded to the shaft, the bolt falling out of the selector rod (both of these were previously noted by other people) or a broken shifter fork.
I decided on the detent plungers for several reasons: One - I couldn't come up with a reason that ONLY second gear would have gotten welded to the shaft and not any other gear. Two - the bolt falling out of the selector rod is a possibility, but I have never seen it happen and discounted this for reason number three. Three - He said the transmission had been monkeyed with twice and it was stuck in SECOND gear (instead of any other gear). I have seen the detent plungers left out before by un-skilled technicians. (if you don't know about them, they can fall out and not be noticed) When this happens just about the only way you can get the transmission to engage two gears at once is by selecting reverse and having the reverse idler push the 1/2 slider up to engage 2nd gear. Then, attempting to shift into some other gear locks the tranny up. I have seen this many times before.
Given the circumstances it was the obvious choice.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Damon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Damon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->First results<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 11:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Well I had a few minutes to dive into the
tranny last night. I pulled the shafts
and shift rods.
None of the gears are welded to the shaft,
all of the synchros were OK. None of the
shift forks had broken bolts, and they all
looked to be in very good shape. When I
pulled the shift rods, there were balls
between the 1-2 & 3-4 rods as well as
between the 3-4 & 5-R rods.
I do not remeber seeing the pin that goes
through the 3-4 rod, you know the one that's
shown in the haynes as "don't forget this
thin interlock plunger" or something like that.
Sounds like it's a $3 fix. GOT to love those
Thanks for the good pointers!
...Anyone know of any limited slips or
locking differentials while I'm in here ?
Thanks again!!!!
-Damon<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->That was it<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 6:18 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The missing pin is the culprit. You have no idea how common leaving that pin out is. Usually, someone pulls the rod out and the pin falls out before they even see it. So they never knew it was there.
Limited slips? Colotti makes one. Bring your wallet. They sell for about $3500 before you ship it from Italy. The question is; why are you looking for one? The X really doesn't need a LSD.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->" the little bean "<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 9:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Seen the detail referred to as that and thought it was a peculiar description; but one that stuck. Chalk up another preliminary and accurate diagnosis for you Steve ! The diff sure looks very easy to pin or weld tight. I'm suprised nobody has ever tried locking the X's diff. No doubt it would wear tires quickly.
lezesig '79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Damon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Damon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Very good diagnosis, Steve !<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 2 2001, 10:25 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Looks like that pin is the stinker
I can't wait
to get this back together and alive again !
3500 seems a bit steep for a limited slip! I have
got full lockers in all of my other vehicles
(front and rear in both jeeps, front mid and
rear in the 6x6) and really like the improved
traction. For that price tag, I can live without.
I will agree that it's not a necessity in an
X1/9. Probably not having one could extend my life.
It just would have been nice to do now with the
transmission out because I have a feeling once it
goes back into the X, it's gonna stay there for a
while !!
Thanks again!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Damon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Damon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->one fork was abused...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 5 2001, 6:06 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
I gave it a good look-see this weekend, and
everything looked pretty good for the most
part. 5th sliding sleeve could have been
better (was not replaced in tranny rebuild)
and after a while I had the 5th fork on the
bench, and managed to knock it off and it
landed upside down. And with it's underbelly
exposed, I got a very good chuckle.
The bottom side of the forks had a very odd
texture. smooth in a couple of small spots
and very wavy texture otherwise !! Well
after a little more looking, the fork had been
worn down to about 0.125" (3mm) and built
up using some of the lumpiest brass that I
have ever seen. Geez does it take a rocket
scientist to throw in on thick and at least
grind it flat ??
Glad that I have a parts tranny to plunder from!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Interesting<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 5 2001, 8:52 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Damon,
Sounds like someone had a difficult time getting the filler or buildup metal to stick to the casting for the 5th gear fork.
lezesig '79 X 1/9 <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 6:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, the car could have been driven for some time before the problem manifested itself. If you don't try to engage reverse, you would probably never know there was a problem. Also, if reverse happens to line up just right, it may engage reverse instead of 2nd. The first time I found this problem, it was in a 4 spd and I showed the owner how to jack the driver's side of the car up, pull the end plate off and push the 1/2 selector rod back to the neutral position. This would get him on his way until the next time. Just don't park where you have to back out. He drove it that way for a few months until I had a chance to pull it out and fix it for him.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->..oh where, oh where did those little balls go...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 9:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Close ?
lezesig 79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001 at 2:13 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Damon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Damon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Hello All. My buddy gave me his 87 X1/9
to keep my 86 X1/9 company. Anyway, here's
the deal....
A couple of years back he hit a pothole
and knocked a hole in his tranny. I
had a 5-speed that I had just taken
out of a parts car, rebuilt not too long
ago. (assume it was not rebuilt by a
fiat-competent shop) Well we got it almost
installed and he ended up taking it down
to a shop (known fiat incompetent) to
finish it up. This shop had to open up
the tranny for something (I forget what).
SO we have an X with the tranny monkeyed
with twice... Well my buddy is able to
drive it for like 3 months and then 2nd
gear becomes permanently engaged.
Like if you put the stick in neutral, it's
still second gear. If you shift into
another gear, second is still engaged and
you get the whole thing to bind up (essentially
park)
Now it's been a while since I have dug into the
maual transaxle, but I remeber there being some
particular spot to be careful on to prevent the
transmission from binding. The servie manual states
that a 4-speed synchro will fit into the 5-speed
but it will cause it to bind. What do I need to be
on the lookout for on a rebuild (doing this myself)?
The plan could be to take the parts out of the
broken case unit and put them in the solid case
(the bound tranny). On the bound tranny, the output
shaft is still jammed in the housing - against the
force of the shift rods....
Thoughts on problem areas in the tranny to catch
the glitch that's holding me in second gear ??
PS: does anyone make a posi or limited slip or locker
for the x1/9 ??
Thanks a million!!
-Damon
86 X1/9 JetHot header&intake, PBS flywheel
87 X1/9 cardboard box full of tranny parts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmm<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 2:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds like the bolt that holds the shift fork to the rod fell out? I'm sure Steve Hoelscher will be able to hit the nail on the head!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmmmmm...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 4:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steve H. is the man for you! My first guess and worry would be that it was run low or without gear lube. That will cause one or more of the gears to seize to the output shaft. Just a guess.. whatever it is, you'll see it when you pull it apart. Good luck,
Steve<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 5:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Who is Steve Hoelscher? (Just kidding).
Before the master give is advice, I will go with a wild guess. 1-2 slider is dead. So the gear can no longer come out.
Anyway. Whatever the problem is, you need to dismantle the transmission to see what's wrong. It's not so bad if you follow the 5 speed 101 from the library.
Bye!
Daniel
P.S.: Steve? What is the answer?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Does anybody know the words to that song?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 6:12 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sorry
And the answer is.... (drum roll)..... The detent plungers were left out. TAAA DAAA!!! See, wasn't that easy.
The detent plungers go in the lower case half between the selector shafts. Their job is when one of the selector shafts moves, the movement of that shaft pushes the detent plunger into the notch machined into the other shafts, effectively locking them in place. This prevents the transmission from being shifted into more than one gear at a time. There is also a little pin called an interlocking pin that sits in a tiny hole in the 3/4 selector shaft (the center one) that causes the 1/2 selector shaft to be locked when shifting into reverse or 5th. Leave the detent plungers out and there is nothing to lock the other shafts in place when one of them is moved by the shifter.
How this transmission got locked in 2nd gear is; when someone tried to shift into reverse, the reverse idler pushed the 1/2 slider into the 2nd gear position because the detent ball was missing. (And the spring loaded detent balls at the other end of the shafts keep it there) But the shifter is now in the reverse position. You can now move the shifter back to neutral but the transmission is still in 2nd gear. Not only that, but now you can't put the shifter in 2nd because the "dog" won't line up with the intermediate linkage. So the tranny is permanently stuck in 2nd, and engaging any other gear now has two gears engaged so the tranny locks up.
You can pull the end plate off the tranny and push the 1/2 selector shaft back down into the neutral position and it should work fine. BUT every time you try to use reverse, it will engage 2nd and you are back to this problem again.
It is actually and easy fix. Split the case and pull the selector rods out, install the detent plungers and an interlocking pin and button it back up. You might want to check the synchros while your in there though.
Incidentally, if 2nd gear got welded to the shaft, it would have the exact same symptoms. And if the tranny hadn't just been rebuilt I would have suspected that might be the problem.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 11:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the great advice. I'm eager to
tear into this and get another set of
wheels under me. (plus the 10 mpg in my
daily driver is killing me!)
Sounds easy enough to go after the plungers.
The case is torn down almost to that point.
But does it make sense that it could
be driven for a couple of weeks before
this problem occured ?
I believe it was backed into a garage, up
a steep angle, before it finally "bit"
into second gear.
Thanks again!!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->- another possibility ? -<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 4:07 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->How about a broken spring in translater box ?
How bout that one Steve ?
lezesig '79 X 1/9
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Translator box?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 6:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Do you mean the "intermediate linkage". That is the linkage between the main shift rod and the selector rods?
That spring is what provides the centering preload for the shifter. It is not uncommon for that spring to break. When it does, the shifter looses its centering preload. It doesn't affect the function of the gearbox, it just makes the shifter feel sloppy.
The things that could cause the problem are the missing detent plungers, 2nd gear welded to the shaft, the bolt falling out of the selector rod (both of these were previously noted by other people) or a broken shifter fork.
I decided on the detent plungers for several reasons: One - I couldn't come up with a reason that ONLY second gear would have gotten welded to the shaft and not any other gear. Two - the bolt falling out of the selector rod is a possibility, but I have never seen it happen and discounted this for reason number three. Three - He said the transmission had been monkeyed with twice and it was stuck in SECOND gear (instead of any other gear). I have seen the detent plungers left out before by un-skilled technicians. (if you don't know about them, they can fall out and not be noticed) When this happens just about the only way you can get the transmission to engage two gears at once is by selecting reverse and having the reverse idler push the 1/2 slider up to engage 2nd gear. Then, attempting to shift into some other gear locks the tranny up. I have seen this many times before.
Given the circumstances it was the obvious choice.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->First results<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 11:48 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Well I had a few minutes to dive into the
tranny last night. I pulled the shafts
and shift rods.
None of the gears are welded to the shaft,
all of the synchros were OK. None of the
shift forks had broken bolts, and they all
looked to be in very good shape. When I
pulled the shift rods, there were balls
between the 1-2 & 3-4 rods as well as
between the 3-4 & 5-R rods.
I do not remeber seeing the pin that goes
through the 3-4 rod, you know the one that's
shown in the haynes as "don't forget this
thin interlock plunger" or something like that.
Sounds like it's a $3 fix. GOT to love those
Thanks for the good pointers!
...Anyone know of any limited slips or
locking differentials while I'm in here ?
Thanks again!!!!
-Damon<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->That was it<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 6:18 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The missing pin is the culprit. You have no idea how common leaving that pin out is. Usually, someone pulls the rod out and the pin falls out before they even see it. So they never knew it was there.
Limited slips? Colotti makes one. Bring your wallet. They sell for about $3500 before you ship it from Italy. The question is; why are you looking for one? The X really doesn't need a LSD.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->" the little bean "<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 1 2001, 9:34 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Seen the detail referred to as that and thought it was a peculiar description; but one that stuck. Chalk up another preliminary and accurate diagnosis for you Steve ! The diff sure looks very easy to pin or weld tight. I'm suprised nobody has ever tried locking the X's diff. No doubt it would wear tires quickly.
lezesig '79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Very good diagnosis, Steve !<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 2 2001, 10:25 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Looks like that pin is the stinker
to get this back together and alive again !
3500 seems a bit steep for a limited slip! I have
got full lockers in all of my other vehicles
(front and rear in both jeeps, front mid and
rear in the 6x6) and really like the improved
traction. For that price tag, I can live without.
I will agree that it's not a necessity in an
X1/9. Probably not having one could extend my life.
It just would have been nice to do now with the
transmission out because I have a feeling once it
goes back into the X, it's gonna stay there for a
while !!
Thanks again!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->one fork was abused...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 5 2001, 6:06 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
I gave it a good look-see this weekend, and
everything looked pretty good for the most
part. 5th sliding sleeve could have been
better (was not replaced in tranny rebuild)
and after a while I had the 5th fork on the
bench, and managed to knock it off and it
landed upside down. And with it's underbelly
exposed, I got a very good chuckle.
The bottom side of the forks had a very odd
texture. smooth in a couple of small spots
and very wavy texture otherwise !! Well
after a little more looking, the fork had been
worn down to about 0.125" (3mm) and built
up using some of the lumpiest brass that I
have ever seen. Geez does it take a rocket
scientist to throw in on thick and at least
grind it flat ??
Glad that I have a parts tranny to plunder from!
-d<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Interesting<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]February 5 2001, 8:52 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Damon,
Sounds like someone had a difficult time getting the filler or buildup metal to stick to the casting for the 5th gear fork.
lezesig '79 X 1/9 <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 31 2001, 6:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, the car could have been driven for some time before the problem manifested itself. If you don't try to engage reverse, you would probably never know there was a problem. Also, if reverse happens to line up just right, it may engage reverse instead of 2nd. The first time I found this problem, it was in a 4 spd and I showed the owner how to jack the driver's side of the car up, pull the end plate off and push the 1/2 selector rod back to the neutral position. This would get him on his way until the next time. Just don't park where you have to back out. He drove it that way for a few months until I had a chance to pull it out and fix it for him.
Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->..oh where, oh where did those little balls go...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 29 2001, 9:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Close ?
lezesig 79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]