Turbo systems for X1/9's

Now I am finalizing the UT build. Got most sensors replaced, new ignition etc ready so it is soon time to have the engine in place. But I am not 100% clear on oil feed. My UT engine has a X1/9 oil pan and I assume that one is a little bit deeper and angled compared to the UT oil pan. I never seen an UT oil pan IRL so I can't tell the difference. Should I change to the X1/9 oil feeder tube as well? Is it taller than the UT tube to suck oil from the deeper(?) oil pan? I compared the length oi the dip sticks and at least they don't seem to differ.
I hope someone with an UT engine can advice.
 
The engine sits at a different angle in the X so you need to use the X oil pump with the X oil pan. You'll also need to add a way to get the turbo oil return back into the pan.
 
Seems like the UT 1,3l fuelrail differs from the FI X1/9. When putting in the UT engine, I noticed that the dog bone rod pushed the fuel rail against the plenum so it was necessary to modify it to create more space. I replaced the rod with a thick steel tube that did the trick. Now I will replace the (burned) rubber with pulyurethane and paint it.
upload_2020-5-9_11-1-47.png
 
Seems like the UT 1,3l fuelrail differs from the FI X1/9

One way to get around that is to use a fuel rail from an injected X1/9. Plenty of those kicking around. Only issue is even the rail needs modification, as there is a feed for the cold start injector that the UnoT does not have. That's what I am going to do. My car is injected already, so all my fuel lines will easily hook up to the UT that I'm working on
 
Yes, the X's fuel rail entry faces the opposite direction than the UT's. And there are a couple of other differences; the extra feed that @myronx19 described, and the type of connection/fitting used to attach the fuel supply to the rail's inlet....one is a push-on barb and the other is a threaded fitting.

One possible work around that I considered is moving the mounts for the dogbone over to one side a bit, to clear the UT fuel rail. That would be fairly easy to do on one end but a bit more involved on the other end. Plus my intercooler is being mounted near there, making things more crowded. So I decided not to do that. Instead I had opted to use the X's rail to avoid the dogbone. [I thought the extra fuel takeoff fitting (for the CSI) could be used to feed a nitrous injection system or a exhaust flame thrower setup :D ]. But after seeing the mod that @Bjorn Nilson did I might go the other way, with the UT rail. I did not think to move the bone down like BN did, that will work very well (although I'll have to check that it will clear my turbo plumbing/piping). And it looks much more the part being a larger diameter tube instead of the skinny rod. Plus you could accomodate the slight offset that exists between the two ends of the dogbone mounts (at least on my X). I'd planned to make my dogbone adjustable, so it was going to get cut up and modded anyway. Now to find a way to do both - move it down and be adjustable (plus clear my turbo stuff).

By the way, I've found a nice adaptor that fits the threaded outlet end on either fuel rail to convert it to a push-on barb if anyone is interested. That allows you to not use the stock fuel pressure regulator in favor of a aftermarket adjustable (and remotely mounted) one. ;)

I have the needed components to make either of these below, utilizing the extra fuel outlet on the X's rail:
4CYL_BIKE_KIT_large.JPG

601867_n.png
 
By the way, I've found a nice adaptor that fits the threaded outlet end on either fuel rail to convert it to a push-on barb if anyone is interested
I did it the easiest way. Rebuilding the mounts, repaint the engine compartment etc would have taken too much time. The dog bone/tube is far away from the turbo so don't vory about space. As you see in my previous posting the tube is in line with the round connections on the dog bone so space is not an issue. I used a rather thick tube to handle the pushing torque force as the rod/tube is no longer in center of the mounts.

I need to find a new INLET adaptor (push-on, NPT or whatever) that fits on the threaded connection on the UT fuel rail. If you can help with that I am very interested.
I also fitted a cheap aftermarket pressure regulator as well but I didn't use an adaptor, instead I cut the tiny tube to stock regulator, removed the bolt and replaced it with a hose without a push-on barb. The hose will at least not move in any direction, but it would have been safer with a push-on barb. - The future will tell if it leaks...
IMG_20200509_221948.jpg

IMG_20200509_222008.jpg

As you see, the return line is not yet fitted.
 
Last edited:
I need to find a new INLET adaptor (push-on, NPT or whatever) that fits on the threaded connection on the UT fuel rail.
The UT's threaded inlet is a M12 (1.25) straight (not tapered) thread, with a 45 degree male flare end to seal against a female flare fitting. The 45 degree flare is a SAE standard and also known as inverted flare (opposite direction), compression flare, or hydraulic fitting flare (but not the same as "-AN" flare). I have found a couple of possibilities to connect it to a hose.

One isn't the exact correct part but it is readily available here at any hardware story and inexpensive. I was thinking of trying it if I didn't find a better option. However it is not the best solution so I won't go into detail on it.

Another option may be to use a metric flare nut/sleeve and hardline. They are pretty rare here (in metric) but you might have more choices there? The fine thread will be the difficult part. Some hydraulic fittings are fine thread but be aware of the female end being inverted or not. Basically it refers to which way the "cone" is pointing. Most fine thread applications have the female end facing the other way than we need here. This one may work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flare-Tube...=232741556485f8c28890b50842a08700baec7fa5c077
Looks like this, you would only use the "nut" end of it (on the right) with a flared tube hardline:
s-l1600.jpg


The best one I found should be an exact fit, but I had decided to go with the X's rail so I did not get one to test. Below are some examples. Also search for M12(1.25) hydraulic female flare fitting. It can be found with various options on the other end....

Barb like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Fit...011620?hash=item2efa21c0a4:g:ItsAAOSwFe5XxYfz
The description isn't perfectly clear and I did not get much help from the seller, but I think it is correct.
Also available with a different barb size: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Fit...011543?hash=item2efa21c057:g:ItsAAOSwFe5XxYfz

Same seller also has it with a -AN end (so you could use AN type hose). However it is a -4 which is a bit small (1/4" hose ID): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Fit...575557?hash=item2f204ffb85:g:-iUAAOSwrXhbdlyJ

Threaded end so you can connect any fitting to that (i.e. two fittings together)...like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steel-Adap...nch-/232788196614?vxp=mtr&hash=item363341fd06

Crimp like this (sorry, no link):
images.jpg


Any of these should work, but like I said I haven't tried.
 
Another thread I will reference here is one discussing replacement dash gauge options. The idea came up of using outputs from a aftermarket standalone ECU to display gauge functions digitally on a screen. Some aftermarket ECU software offers this capability, using a tablet or similar Android based computer.

I plan to use a MicroSquirt ECU with TunerStudio software for project TurboX. It offers this feature to display gauge functions on the dash. The requirements to do so are a BlueTooth enabled, Android based computer of some type. The unit needs to be a full version of Android so the more recent Android dash media units (e.g. double DIN infotainment systems) won't work. And it needs to have enough system capability and storage capacity to do so, especially if you want to also use it for data logging (another really feature of this concept).

As was discussed in the other thread most of the lesser expensive tablets do not meet all of the requirements. The experiences of others have determined a better unit is needed. And one that qualifies can get a little expensive. There may be a couple of tablet options starting around the $100 to $150 range that might work. But even at that price one concern I have is mounting a nice tablet in the dash of a vehicle that is easily broken into. And frankly since my intent would be to put this capability in the TurboX project, which is a low budget build, I really don't want to install anything of value in it. The tablet could be made removable but in my opinion that isn't too practical for this use. I'd rather have something I could hardwire into the car (e.g. to power it up on engine start up), and incorporate it into the dash in a more fixed manor.

I've noticed mention of another possibility but I still need to learn more about it. Basically it uses a small inexpensive Android based "bare bones" computer module as the processor and a separate display screen. The one being mentioned is a Raspberry Pi:
It meets all of the necessary requirements and then some. Apparently it could even be used as the programming ("tuning") computer for the EFI system, in lieu of a laptop. It is small enough to be concealed behind the dash or similar location. Then hardwired into the car's electrical system for power. It communicates via BlueTooth as well as USB ports and easily interfaces with a portable keyboard. Any seperate display can be connected (there isn't any display on the unit), plus it has dual display outputs so you could even have two. With the wide variety of video display screens available for cars this makes the options pretty much limitless. Possibly connect one smaller screen to one of the outputs to use as your dash gauge display, and have the second output handy to connect a larger 'full-size' screen (along with a portable keyboard) when you want to do some tuning.
Features that I particularly like about this concept for the TurboX project are the ability to use a small basic screen mounted permanently into the dash, the ability to conceal everything else easily and neatly, and the low total cost of the whole set up (roughly around $100 I believe). But there is much more I need to learn about it. An idea I have for the display would be to mount it on a pivot so it could be turned around backward when not in use. With the back side covered in material matching the dash it would be completely concealed.
 
I've learned more about those little Pi computers. My understanding that they operated on Android OS was incorrect. They typically come without any OS and there is a free OS designed for it that's based on a form of Linux. It can run a modified version of Windows, which might or might not work for the TunerStudio software...I'm not sure? I'll have to go back to see how the guys on the TS forum are using it. But I'm not convinced it is a great option for what I'm looking to do.

I also came across another tiny computer similar to the Pi that is Android based. But by the time you get everything needed the cost is about the same as some tablets (around $100-150). So I don't think there are a lot of advantages to using it just to display digital gauges (TS can't be run on Android, so it won't allow you to tune the ECU).

I guess the affordable tablets that have enough resources to work as a gauge display is still the best alternative.
 
I've a small tablet attached to the dash on which you can add, courtesy of the Maxx ECU, various gauges and switches. Very useful in so many ways, however, the visibility compared to the analogue gauges isn't as good, especially in bright sunlight. I would imagine that will vary with type of tablet and ecu. For the all important rev counter that's why I stuck to the old fashioned type
 
For the all important rev counter that's why I stuck to the old fashioned type
I intend to retain traditional analog gauges for the tach, speedo, coolant temp, oil temp, oil press, and fuel level, along with traditional warning/indicator lights. This will be a street car and I want to retain a period correct look for the most part. But I do not have any displays for the turbo related functions; AFR, boost, IAT. Those are what I'm considering for the digital display. That is one reason why I do not want to invest a lot into this display, as I could just as easy add a couple more analog gauges that match the others. And that would be more period correct appearance wise. But for those vital turbo functions I like the idea of seeing what the ECU is seeing. And far as I know the MicroSquirt does not have a way to feed traditional style electronic/analog gauges, so the digital display is the only way (I believe). Plus combining them into one display is more efficient than adding more gauges. So it is a bit of a trade off in my case - I may decide to go either way on it.
 
In another thread, @Integrale pointed out that TunerStudio also offers a version of their software designed for use on Linux systems. With the Raspberry Pi based on a Linux OS that might explain the talk about them on the TunerStudio forums (I haven't read through all of it to get the details). I believe the idea is to install the Pi in the car, connected to the MegaSquirt ECU, operating on the Linux OS, so they have real time access to the full TS package. That would allow them to do tuning or diagnostic work any time without having to carry a laptop onboard. That would also allow any of the displays offered in TS to be viewed in the car. So full instrumentation and more is available. I suppose especially for someone that does not already have a laptop then this is actually a much more affordable approach, as the Pi and all related components can be had for well under $100.

Also in the other thread, @Bjorn Nilson pointed out a nice 7" tablet that runs on Android for a great price. Although you cannot do any 'tuning' with it, it will allow the 'virtual' gauges to be displayed on the dash with many of the aftermarket ECU's. The Lenovo M7 is a fairly new offering that was introduced at the terrific price of $60 in the US. It has a 1.3Ghz quadcore, 1 GB RAM, and 16GB hard drive. Unfortunately they have sold out everywhere so are not currently available. I suspect when (if?) they come back it might be at a higher price. But Lenovo also offers the M8 (8" version). Plus a M8 FHD, a upgraded version of the M8 with a 2.3Ghz octa-core, 3GB RAM, 32GB hard drive, and a enhanced display, currently on special for $128 (M8 FHD). And it is available. More expensive than the M7 but with considerably more guts, and still a great price (the regular M8 FHD price is considerably higher).

For my project I don't know if I'll go with a 'virtual' digital dash display or not. One thing I'm still trying to figure out is the options for adding conventional (analog/electronic) gauges for AFR, IAT, and boost directly from the MicroSquirt ECU. You cannot just piggyback the sensors leads to feed both the ECU and dash gauges. And as far as I understand the MicroSquirt (a scaled down version of MegaSquirt) doesn't have outputs for them. It has a limited number of available outputs in general, and most (all?) of them will already be occupied with other necessary functions. So I haven't found a way to do that yet, but I would think there is (there is a CANBUS option but I have no interest in going that route). If I do then I might decide to use regular gauges instead of a digital display to keep the dash more "period" correct (as I described earlier).
 
I think this thread is better for continuing the discussion. Note that s Raspberry or Android is NOT good for real-time logging as they are not fast enough. Not even x86 Intel is not fast enough for real time in some logging according to MaxxECU. In that case MaxxECU logs and then download logs to PC on demand (imagine monitoring 12 cylinders at 8500 rpm). Keep in mind that tuning/settings is one thing, gauges/switches is another that is MUCH slower and can be handled by a pretty simple device. I assume forwarding gauges info to another device can be done by CANBUS but I also see no reason as long as I have an Android device.
 
@Bjorn Nilson , after further research I completely agree. The MegaSquirt info says the same; you need a decent computer to do tuning, settings, etc. But for just gauge display a Android will work. I don't recall seeing any specific MegaSquirt requirements for computing power - although I'm sure there is somewhere. But they do talk about issues when trying to do more with less (so to speak).

From what I've read the whole CANBUS thing seems rather complicated, at least for someone like me that isn't knowledgeable with such things. And the CANBUS gauges tend to be very modern "digital" numeric displays, not old school looking analog sweeping needles like I want. Not to mention they are rather costly. So I might as well use the tablet approach.

There are a couple of specific brand/model of some gauges/senders that will feed both the ECU and the matching dash gauge. However none of them appeal to me for various reasons; modern numeric display, poor reputation for reliability/issues, incompatibility with the rest of the system I'm using, overly expensive, etc. And they are only available for certain functions, not necessarily the ones I'm interested in.

As I said previously I'm going to use standard style gauges for most functions (as part of the whole build esthetic). Really the only extra displays I might want to add are the AFR, boost level, and IAT. However I'm not even decided on some of those. The IAT would only be to see how the engine is managing thermal load with the turbo system. Other ways to look at this might be EGT, or multiple sensors for temp differentials in particular spots, etc. But once everything is properly tuned safely this really isn't needed. So I might just use datalogging reviews to check it until I'm comfortable things are under control. And not worry about a gauge for it. Same for boost level. I really just want to make sure the boost controller can prevent creep and maintain a safe level of pressure under most conditions. So once things are looking consistently good then I won't worry about it much and a gauge is no longer needed. Keep in mind I am not building a "performance" engine or race vehicle as much as supplementing the stock SOHC with a little extra "drivability" for regular street use; low boost, small turbo, lots of thermal management, conservative tune. Therefore once I know things are not detonating or overheating then I just want to drive it like a normal car and don't really need a ton of gauges to look at. The AFR might be one exception, because of its criticality and variables that may not be easy to always control (fuel quality, ambient temp, component failure).

I'm also thinking rather than mount a tablet into the dash, I may temporarily use my phone to read a couple of functions during the set up and sorting stages. It could be held with one of the common phone holders that are easily removed.

Another thought is to set some warning levels in the ECU to trigger a light and/or buzzer in lieu of gauges. It would be nice to combine all of the warnings to feed one red light right in the middle of the dash's field of view. I saw a small surface mounted warning light and buzzer combination that might be used. They are available in various sizes:
red bUZZER.jpg


Really when you think about it gauges are only good when you are looking at them. And it's when you are driving silly - a time when you will be focused on the road and not the gauges - that things tend to go wrong. So 'displays' are not necessarily the best failsafe.
 
Yes, keeping the eyes on the road is better than study the gauges. But are you sure you need a separate warning light to achieve this? At least MaxxECU can handle warnings, shift light etc. and maybe that feature is available in Megasquirt as well.

 
are you sure you need a separate warning light
My comment wasn't clear, sorry. I was saying to use just the warning light/buzzer in place of extra gauges or a tablet display. The idea being it will alert any major issues, which could easily be missed if there was only gauges and you weren't looking at them. I'll admit I tend to not pay a lot of attention to my gauges unless I suspect something is going wrong (strange noises, loss of power, etc). And I was referring to the warning indicator being triggered by the ECU, as you described in your last post, but the difference being using the pictured dash light/buzzer instead of a tablet display.

The drawback is you won't know which particular parameter is triggering the warning, unless you have separate ones for whichever functions you choose. But if only a couple of vital functions were connected to it - e.g. AFR, oil pressure, temp - and the threshold settings are at critical levels, then you will know to shut down immediately regardless. Or you might have two warning indicators, one red and one yellow. The yellow is set to indicate abnormal conditions that are not necessarily critical, telling you to back-off. And the red is for critical issues (as described) requiring immediate shutdown. For that matter the pictured indicator with a buzzer may not be necessary, just small LED lights would likely be enough. In other words this is a failsafe measure rather than a information display. And the goal is to have some sort of feedback without adding a bunch of gauges or a modern digital display - to maintain a period looking dash. Again, not for a full performance track car, but for a conservative road car driven normally.
 
Got ECU and sensors/triggers ready today except a temperature sensor for injectors that I forgot to order. I've spent days with planning and building the wire harness and I am happy with the result:
IMG_20200601_203550.jpg


Now it is time for turbo plumbing and I have a clear picture how to do it except for one thing. I have a Mitsubishi (Volvo) TD04HLT14 turbo with a built in Blow Off Valve. I have an embarrassing question about how to connect it. The BOV has an actuator and a vacuum(?) port and I am not sure where to connect this line. -To plenum? -Elsewhere? I hope that Hussein or any other Volvo guy is reading this and can help me out.
IMG_20200601_203520.jpg

I am new in turboing and as per my understanding the BOV is normally handled by a spring that can be replaced for adjusting blow off. Is the Volvo turbo different in this matter? An option would be deactivating the internal BOV and go for a standard "spring" model connected higher up on the pressurized intake pipe instead. An "open" model would definitely make more brutal "psshh" noice but I am not sure I want that.
 
Bjorn, your wire harness looks really good. It's funny, people tend to either do a very poor job of wiring or a really excellent job - like you. ;)

Interesting having the BOV on the turbo. Most of the turbo info that I've read says the BOV should be located as close to the throttle plate as possible for quicker/more accurate control of excess pressure. But factory turbos often have unusual stuff like this. There is a Mercedes unit that has a funky combined wastegate and BOV unit on it. I'll let a Volvo expert confirm, but the vacuum line connection should be like any other BOV, and go to the plenum. Most factory BOV's (and wastegates) are not adjustable and have fixed settings (e.g. spring) and sealed housings like this. So you have a couple options; replace it as you say, or "trick" it with a controller. But keep in mind the BOV does not control your boost level, that's what the wastegate does. The BOV is to protect from sudden overboost, like on throttle shutdown. So it is kind of the opposite of a wastegate in that it limits maximum pressure, not determine baseline pressure. These videos give a simple explanation of the BOV spring and setting the level (it is for his product but the info applies to any adjustable BOV):



Brett is the owner of a popular aftermarket turbo parts company in Australia (GFB). He really knows this stuff and understands the principles/theory as well as the practical application. I've met him a few times at trade shows and he is very friendly and willing to offer any help he can, regardless of what products you are asking about or what your level of knowledge is. I like his explanations. He has several YouTube videos on related topics. There are many others as well. But like all things internet there are also a lot of idiots that have no idea what they are talking about (like me :p).

What type of wastegate does this turbo have?
 
My turbo (T5R) uses a vacuum controlled turbo bypass valve as opposed to a BOV. It basically opens a bypass around the compressor. Looks similar to your photo. I got suspicious one day when slow cars were blowing right past me with my foot to the floor. Turned out the vacuum hose to the bypass valve perished due to the heat so I was getting almost no boost.
 
Back
Top