Vehicle title in California

Dr.Jeff

Dr.Jeff

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Having lived in CA for over 50 years, and buying and selling more cars than I care to admit, I was very familiar with Cali's DMV rules and how to work around certain issues that arose from time to time. But for the last 7 years I've been living in another state and kind of lost track of the current state of affairs in the wonderful world of "CA DMV". So now I have a question.
I just found a nice X for sale at a good price, with a CA title. Problem is the title is not in the current seller's name and the vehicle has not been registered for about 15 years. And it was not put on a "non-op" status so there are a TON of back fees owed on it....way more than the vehicle's value. DMV will not disclose any details regarding the name of the legal owner, the exact status of the past due registration, or even what needs to be done in order to straighten it out; that information is reserved for the person who's name is on the title. Being a '79, the VIN does not appear on Carfax or the like. There is no paper work in the vehicle (no old registrations, etc) and no plates on it. Furthermore the current seller does not know anything about it (the car was abandoned on his rental property many years ago). I was able to determine that it has not been reported as stolen, there are no liens on it, and the title is not a salvage/total loss/etc. How does one get a clear title in a situation like this? From the best I can tell, the current seller would need to file the right papers, pay the back fees, repair the engine so it will pass CA smog, get a title in his name, and then he can sell it to me. That won't happen.
The irony is I want to title and register it in my current state (not Calif), but the local DMV will not do that without the CA title first. My state does not require smog testing or other inspections on vehicles of that age, so anything goes once I get it titled here. Any suggestions?
 
You can obtain a title by placing a lien on the car for storage fees and then "sell" the car taking possession of the car and its title. I would imagine the same could be done in your current state to gain ownership of the vehicle in your state.

However as you are in Sin city versus LaLa Land, do you need a current title at all? When I moved my Cali cars to Vermont they didn't care about the title as they don't title cars beyond a certain age, everything on those cars is on bill of sale.
 
I think "towers" (tow truck services) do the same "lien" process Karl is referring to? Or do they have another method? I also wonder if 'licensed car dealers' have ways around things?
Unfortunately my state requires a title from the origin state (CA in this case) before they will issue a new one. Does Calif still require the back fees must be paid even on a lien sale?? The back fees are a major issue in this case, they are significantly higher than the value of the car.
I hoped that wanting to title it in another state would avoid some of the problems but so far it does not look like it.
Anyone have a DMV contact or access to services that deal with this type of thing?
 
From what I understand there's a process by which you can apply for a Vermont non-resident title. It requires getting the VIN officially documented but after that it's fairly straightforward and after getting the Vermont title you can then apply for a new one in the state you reside in if you want or you can simply get a Vermont non-resident registration and plates...
 
No the possesory lein (at least in Oregon) clears all that (including lean holders) but you have to notify them as well. My advice would be to use a lein service.
 
Vermont doesn't title cars older than 15 years.

You might be able to get someone to create a bill of sale from someone in Vermont and use that to obtain title in your state.

To sell an older vehicle in other states you can get an exempt title as below. They do create an exempt title as seen below. I believe Jon Tanney may have assisted with this in the past. I have family there and they might be cajoled into assisting.

http://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehicle-title/exempt-title
 
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I'll look closer into the lien process, but I'm pretty sure it does not eliminate the back fees in Calif. So it might help with the lack of a current title but not the prohibitive cost.

I examined the Vermont DMV site. They have an interesting way of titling; as I understand, vehicles less than 15 y.o. get a title, but no titles for vehicles older than that (as Karl said) unless the owner requests one for a vehicle that is more than 25 y.o.. However the "over 25 y.o." rule only applies for Vermont residents. The 'non-resident' stuff if for newer (<15 y.o.) vehicles.

Its funny how the CA DMV won't tell any specific details due to 'privacy' concerns. Without that info it is impossible to know how to proceed. As it was explained to me you won't know something is wrong until after the purchase, when it is too late to do anything about it. Kind of prevents a buyer from protecting oneself.
 
It sounds wrong for me, in my country you can get full info about car (taxes, when and how much owners has been canged, full MOT info for last time and some more,except who is owner) and how much it would cost to change ownership with all taxes. If owner or car have any penalties to pay, can't change ownership before he isn't paid them.
 
As I understand it, a lien sale in CA will not clear back fees. However, the fees don't follow the car out of state. What does your state do in the case of abandoned vehicles there if they were last registered somewhere else?
 
One way of "cleansing back fees" would be to follow the lien sale with a junk permit. Here in California a junk permit can be converted to a revived salvage or salvage title. The back fees are lost with this process, However a brake and lamp inspection is required, and a vin verification. The "salvage " title may be an undesirable stigma.
 
Kevin Channer said:
One way of "cleansing back fees" would be to follow the lien sale with a junk permit. Here in California a junk permit can be converted to a revived salvage or salvage title. The back fees are lost with this process, However a brake and lamp inspection is required, and a vin verification. The "salvage " title may be an undesirable stigma.
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A little off topic, when I lived in SoCal, I bought a junked Scorpion from Giant Auto Wrecking (well known Fiat dismantler). It had a salvage vehicle; maybe just a bill of sale. I ended up moving to CO with the car, restored it and "bonded" for a title. It was a 12-step process, but I ended up with a clean CO. Turns out, I sold the car to a person in CA who in turn titled it with a "clean" CA title. Kind of a loophole, but he ended up with a CA car with a clean CA title.
 
Don't know what Nevada would accept as proper documentation of ownership when titling an out-of-state car in Nevada, but here in Pennsylvania, the BMV (Bureau of Motor Vehicles) accepts whatever it is that Vermont gives you when you register an old out-of-state car there (pretty sure it's a registration document and a license plate, but no title per se). I know of two instances where people have done that her in the last 18 months or so.
 
First let me say I really like the way everyone is thinking here, and your inputs are all greatly appreciated. My goal is to bring another X back to life, and this one has great potential: It obviously spent its life in the dry climate because I could not find any real rust issues. Also there is absolutely no damage. What's really nice is it has the original factory paint so nothing is hidden (although the paint is VERY weathered). It is very complete and overall in very good, original shape. The odometer shows 55,000, which seems to match the overall appearance and condition. So it is worth the effort if I can get past the title issues.

Karl, the 'exempt title' you reference was the option I was speaking of...for cars more than 25 y.o. (check), but only for Vermont residents (not me).

'Fyremanbill', I was told that unfortunately the fees do need to be cleared before the current (CA) title can be released by the state. And my state (NV) requires a clear title from the prior state (CA) before it will issue a new one. In other words, the fees are attached to the title and not the registration, despite the fees being for un-paid back registrations. Very odd, but it's California so what else would you expect. So maybe going through another state first (that does not require the CA title) is the way to go.

Kevin, I think converting it to a 'Salvage title' brings several new problems and may not be the best route.

Dan, in this situation the seller (not the legal owner on CA's records) does not have any registration documents nor license plates. But that really isn't the problem because Nevada will only accept a "title" from the outside state...and no other documents in lieu. Therefore I would need to acquire a title from somewhere first.

Let me review what I know about the situation. The car has a legal owner on record (i.e. title holder) in CA. That name is unknown other than it is not the seller. It was last registered about 15 years ago when it failed the SMOG test, and was left sitting since without a 'PNO' filed (hence the very large back fees). I've also discovered that in 2015 someone (undisclosed who) attempted to get a new title by starting some sort of paper work, but never followed through with it (likely because they found out about the excessive fees after the fact). That further complicates the matter because it may be necessary to get them (if they are not the name on the title) to release interest as well. The car was left on the seller's property many years ago (I guess back when the registration was left unattended), and now he wants to get rid of it...at a very reasonable price. But since his name is none of the above, he cannot legally sell it. So apparently the 'proper' chain of events would be something like: seller goes through the lien process (if possible), pays the back fees, either gets it repaired to pass SMOG (may be required depending if a third party is involved with the unfinished paper work) or files a PNO (if the DMV will allow it), and finally gets a title in his name. Then he can sell it to me. Then I can transfer it to NV. I already know the seller is not willing to do that. Several unanswered questions make this impossible to predict if all of that will even work; the DMV will not verify how many parties are involved, the name(s) of those involved, state exactly how much the fees will total (I was only told "it is a LOT of money, this will be VERY expensive"), and can't even say if a SMOG will definitely be required until everything else is cleared first.
 
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