WANTED: Dual exhaust for 1500 FI X

[79X19]

Hi all,

Been looking out for a dual exhaust for my '81 X ('86 FI Motor) for some time now. Can't seem to find one anywhere. I've been late to the party on a few listed here and figured I'd ask if anyone has one in any condition they would like to get rid of?? Or if anyone knows where I can find one....I see Matt has had them listed in the past but always out of stock. Maybe I'm chasing big foot here but hey if you never ask......

 

[Eastep]

Search eBay Italy, UK or Germany. Theyre always there. FYI, no need to specify or look for a "fuel injected" version. Theres no such thing, for the dual outlet exhaust manifolds. Only when searching for tube headers do you need FI specific versions or AC versions. Just pointing this out, to make your search easiest and so you don't beat your head against a wall.

 

[7982X]

You might try Allison's...
https://allisonsautomotive.com/pages/headers-and-exhaust
They built us a complete system, with header, dual outlet muffler & cat, all ceramic coated. We're in the process of getting the car put back together, so don't know how it sounds yet, but it looks great. Mark has semi retired, I think, and the company has now combined with Auto Ricambi, but they still seem to offer the X1/9 exhaust. Our particular configuration isn't pictured, but they made it per request.

 

[MikeHynes]

Many X heads think of the early 1300 exhaust manifolds that had two outlets as dual exhaust. On the cars exported to the USA this was the best performing factory exhaust. It works well, and the stock type muffler is very simple.
I believe that the Euro cars got this setup on both 1300 and 1500 engines (I believe the muffler is specific - 1300 vs 1500.) So if you want to keep the cast iron exhaust manifold, those are your best choice.
Ansa sold a 4 into 2 into one header/muffler that could have included two outlets on the muffler. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? If so, those don't come up for sale often.
I think you have a pretty good chance finding the stock cast iron two outlets manifold used if you look around, especially as mentioned above in Europe. And I think you'll be able to find the muffler, even a new one, again especially in Europe. If you go that route choose the muffler for your eng (1500), and don't forget the bracket that mounts on the transmission, or, the correct lower engine mount (also attaches to the transmission).
If you want to buy a header the usual Fiat parts vendors can supply one. If you have AC make sure that whatever you buy will work with it. Not all headers do.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

First, please specify what you are looking for when you say "dual exhaust". Do you mean a factory cast iron dual outlet manifold? Or are you referring to a dual exhaust tip muffler? Or something else? Furthermore there are several versions of all these things, so do you have something specific in mind?

If it is a twin outlet cast iron Fiat manifold you mean (which is what I'm assuming), then be aware there are several versions and they are all different. This has been discussed in previous threads with part numbers and more precise details, but I'll try to summarize off the top of my head (which may not be 100% accurate...but I'm sure I'll be corrected).

Some have the location of the outlet(s) positioned in various places relative to the engine bay/drivetrain. That won't matter if you are having the downpipe custom made to fit the manifold. But if you also want an existing (premade) downpipe then you will need the two to match - manifold and downpipe, relative to where they are located. Finding any existing downpipe for a twin outlet manifold is difficult. The factory version for the X had it together with the rest of the exhaust system, sort of all one system. Those are hard to find and costly. There are some options, such as a Yugo downpipe or a 128 version, but they are not ideal and kind of defeat the purpose of having the improved manifold. Most have smaller pipe diameters than the better manifold (more on that below), and some require significant modifications to use on the X. So in my opinion it is best to make (or have made) a custom downpipe. This also allows you to use whatever exhaust system (muffler, cat, outlet tips, etc) that you want.

As I alluded to above, various dual outlet manifolds have different port diameters - as others have mentioned. If you are seeking the "better" one with the largest ports then it will be the later Euro part (with a specific part number). Now and then they can still be found available new from some European sources, but be prepared to pay for it. Used ones come up now and then, but again mostly in Europe - as far as I know they never existed on any cars imported to the US. And shipping a cast iron manifold from Europe can be costly.

As for other "dual exhaust" items, again there are choices. So let us know more specifically what you are seeking so we can help better.

 

[fiatfactory]

Do you mean a dual front pipe like this?



these are not very expensive (I sell them for $400aud for the complete muffler section) and I have dozens so they are readily available. The only thing is they are ALL made with LH rear tail pipe exit. Yes they come as 1300 and 1500 specific (to suit the different block heights) and in two versions for the 1500 as they altered the bracing a little (although the two 1500 parts interchange 40070 and 40071)

And yes, if you choose to use a pre made dual downpipe system, you need to use the correct offset exhaust manifold, or it just wont want to fit easliy.

SteveC

 

[79X19]

Thanks all for the responses. I should have been more detailed in my posting. I am looking for a quad tip exhaust not the exhaust manifold or the down pipe. I have both of those. I have an older 4/2 cast manifold and a yugo Down pipe that I eventually will modify to fit my X. I just like the look of the ANSA style quad tipped dual exhaust. I have been trying to compile enough parts to increase HP of the stock 1500. I have a Euro head, the 4/2 exhaust manifold, the down pipe. Now I’m loooking to add an improved cam and to top it off some improved looks of the dual quad exhaust.

 

[fiatfactory]

the quad tip Ansa's are pretty crap from a performance perspective.... when you get one you will see what I mean.

SteveC

 

[79X19]

That I did not know. I wouldn’t want to subtract from the gains of all other items I’m trying to employ. If I go with the 4/2 exhaust manifold matched down pipe what would be the best muffler option?

 

[fiatfactory]

My one experience with an Ansa quad tip was via a dyno tune of an engine rebuild (that I didn't do) which just didn't perform as the customer wanted so he bought it to me to sort out. It wasn't even 100hp at The wheels. the customer wanted "that" exhaust and had purchased it brand new

To get any performance from it I ended up chopping off the quad tips and fitting 2inch ID single chrome tips. It's the quad tips are the extremely restrictive part, the pipe is like a pea shooter... and the fit IMO is generally crappy with the quad tips hanging out the back way too much for my liking.

Cam timing change, the exhaust change, carby choke and e tube change, fit bellmouths, adjust timing and it was 115hp at the wheels.

SteveC

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Ahhh, now I understand which "dual exhaust" you meant. Sorry, my first thought was you were looking for a manifold. But that's why I asked.

Those quad Anza's (pic below) are getting difficult to find anymore, as you have found. And if you do locate one they aren't as cheap as they used to be. They look great - classic sports car style (Maserati pic below). But as much as I love the appearance of the Anza exhausts, I've found them to be somewhat short lived. They seem to blow out their packing fairly quickly. And they will rust fairly bad as well. Sad because they have a great sound to go with the look (until they blow out). Aside from any performance aspect, I'm not sure they are worth the money for the quality.

At one time there was a very similar exhaust system made for the old air cooled VW bugs. They were easy to get and really cheap. So X1/9 guys were modifying the muffler to fit with a Fiat exhaust. Unfortunately they were extremely restrictive (much worse than any X exhaust) and a really bad idea. But it gave the look with little cost.

As an alternative take a look at what a few members have done with a aftermarket muffler that has one inlet and two outlets. It's laid out with the inlet and one outlet on one end, and another outlet on the other end (pic below). They are designed to mount transverse so the two outlets can lineup to make two exhaust tips out the rear of the X. There are a few mufflers with this design. A common one is made for the older Camaro, but there are aftermarket ones that are more performance oriented. @mkmini did a nice job with his, as have others. Naturally this will require fabrication of the system to fit it to the manifold and out the tail. See if you can find some of the threads with those aftermarket mufflers on X's to see how they were done.

If you really want the Anza quad tip look there is another option. You can build a twin outlet system like I just described above, then add the Anza style dual tips. They are available as a accessory item made by different exhaust companies (pic below). That way you could get them with a larger ID tube to help with the flow.

Some pics to help with the dreams:
Here is the one I believe you are seeking...



Here is the VW version (which might still be available, but not recommended)...


Here is a aftermarket X1/9 header system with a dual outlet muffler. The muffler on this one is similar to what I described above, with two outlets...

I think this is kinda the look you are after...



Here's an example of the generic aftermarket "Anza style" dual tips that can be purchased in various sizes. A pair of them could be added to a dual outlet muffler (example of the muffler below)...


This is the Camaro muffler. There are others with similar designs...


Regarding any dual outlet exhausts on a X1/9. Someone once mentioned they thought twin exhaust tips were not appropriate for the X because the X doesn't have two exhaust pipes like a V8 or V12 engined vehicle does. That makes absolutely no sense to me. It's like saying you can only have as many tips are there are cylinders, or heads, or engines in the vehicle. One has nothing to do with the other. Purely from a 'style' perspective it is completely subjective and therefore anything goes. So build whatever you like for your car. In my opinion the more unique you make your X the better.

 

[aarpcard]

There's also the Monza exhaust. Exits through the rear grill. I prefer the look over the Ansa exhausts. Have one on my car and it definitely felt like there was a boost in performance, not a decrease. Based on the pictures, the exhaust tips seem to have large pipes than the Ansa ones.

I was warned about how loud it is when I bought it . . . Its really not that loud. . .

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Monza is the exhaust manufacturer that makes (made?) the ones for VW's. Is that what you have? Or was yours specifically designed to fit the X1/9 directly?

 

[fiatfactory]

... and it definitely felt sounded like there was a boost in performance, not a decrease.

there ... fixed.

sorry but there is no way that system could produce a noticable increase in performance with the cat and single " 'round the houses" front pipe.

SteveC

 

[aarpcard]

Monza is the exhaust manufacturer that makes (made?) the ones for VW's. Is that what you have? Or was yours specifically designed to fit the X1/9 directly?

This one was specifically designed for the 75-80 X. I had to modify it a bit to fit the smaller CAT on the FI X by extending the inlet pipe. It's been out of production for 25+(?) years I think. This one was designed to exit through the rear grill instead of under the rear valence.

there ... fixed.

sorry but there is no way that system could produce a noticable increase in performance with the cat and single " 'round the houses" front pipe.

SteveC

You might be correct considering I didn't dyno test it, however, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison with the setup you commented on earlier. Putting this on a built 1500 designed to make 115whp will likely net different results than putting this on a stock 1500 that makes 80whp on a very good day with the stock exhaust/muffler. I tend to think this flows better than the stock muffler. Also, it appears to me the pipes through the tips on the monza are larger than the other Ansa type exhausts found more commonly for the X.



I know the common trap for young players is if it sounds louder then it must be faster - so I was actually quite conscious of that when I did the first seat of the pants "performance" test after the install. It definitely felt subtly faster. If I had to quantify it - maybe 5% tops. But of course this could all be placebo

I will say this muffler + a mild performance cam resulted in a more significant unquestionable performance gain over a bone stock 1500FI. It can now keep up with modern traffic from red lights instead of (imho) being on the borderline of dangerously slow.

 

[Eastep]

Just go custom!

Euro dual outlet X1/9 manifold, Yugo down pipe, into a flex pipe, center entrance/ dual side exit Vibrant racing 10633 muffler, custom piping and tips.

 

[Eastep]

Inside: Stock

Inside: Custom

I wish my phone would have picked up the "sound" through the over pass section, better. Instead
, its just reverb like putting a guitar too close to an amp
If your not sorted by June, your welcome to drive my car for yourself, at FFO.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

This one was specifically designed for the 75-80 X.

Thanks, I did not remember Monza making one specifically for the X which is why I asked. That's very cool that they did. I knew the Monza brand from my VW days, it was a very popular exhaust maker with a large selection of custom designs for the air cooled bugs. I had a few of them on various cars, including for off road. And I agree, the outlets on your tips appear much larger diameter than either the Anza or the VW Monza. Plus you make an excellent point about comparing apples to apples; the stock X exhaust (especially the US cat version) is not a performance system by any means. And this is the point in the conversation when I can hear the X purests screaming "yes it is".

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Just go custom!

Euro dual outlet X1/9 manifold, Yugo down pipe, into a flex pipe, center entrance/ dual side exit Vibrant racing 10633 muffler, custom piping and tips.

I agree, with one exception...I'd also go custom for the downpipe. In my opinion the Yugo pipe is not the best choice (sorry Eastep) from a design perspective; it is too short before the 2:1 merge point (relative to the various lengths of the system's other sections), and the diameter of the tubes is slightly too narrow if you have the better late Euro manifold. A few years ago we had a thread where the ultimate X1/9 exhaust system design was reviewed/developed by several experts and that's where the diameters and relative lengths I speak of come from. However making a custom downpipe involves a bit of work due to the twist and bends required, so I can understand using something that's already available. But I like the use of a flex joint as described. And also thanks to Eastep for posting another choice in muffler with the 1-in/2-out configuration. I did not know of any specific examples (other than the common Camaro one), which is why I simply said "there are other choices for mufflers".

 

[toddr124]

View attachment 40601

I believe the bottom picture is my 86 X1/9. What Cat? Test pipes are cheap and easy to install. Historic tags means no emission inspection. There may not be an increase in power, but there is an increase in sound and feels more powerful. These are not track cars. On a straight away we can not keep up with a modern Honda Civic, but at VIR that little X1/9 caught all the Abarths on the track.