What do you use to lift back the transmission in place?

DanielForest

DanielForest

True Classic
Most of the time, I prefer to drop the engine and transmission together and fit them back on the floor. Now I removed my transmission without too many problems, but I'm having a hard time bolting it in place. I'm using a floor jack and I'm trying to get the stud to align with its hole. I got it once, but when trying to push the center into the clutch, the stud goes out and I have to start from zero again. I have to admit, I just do it for 2 hours now. Including 1 hour with a helper (much easier). But I know there are tools... Do you think a transmission adapter for a floor jack could be useful?
 
I just use my dad strength Daniel. ;)

Did you craft a helper stud for the re-install? The floor jack may be enough to support the weight while you get the trans onto the helper stud and do some alignment of the splines. Another idea is to lay a 2x4 or similar lumber across the engine bay and support the trans with a ratchet strap while you work. My experience is that even with both pieces on the floor, the trans wants to make you work for a while before it suddenly decides to slide into place.

To make the helper stud, I used a cut-off wheel to remove the head from one of the bolts I used to mount the engine on an engine stand. Then added a notch on the end to accept a large flat head screw driver to aid in removing the helper later. Thread the helper stud into the top right hole in the block and then you have a place to "hang" the trans while you try to work it into place. Once you get the trans seated, you can back the helper out using the notch you added to the exposed end.
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I imagine that you put a support under the bottom of the oil pan ... decrease the elevation of the engine, this will allow you more play between the car frame wall and the transmision five case.

Daniel if you need help let me know, i'm not far.

Yves
 
DanielForest said:
Most of the time, I prefer to drop the engine and transmission together and fit them back on the floor. Now I removed my transmission without too many problems, but I'm having a hard time bolting it in place. I'm using a floor jack and I'm trying to get the stud to align with its hole. I got it once, but when trying to push the center into the clutch, the stud goes out and I have to start from zero again. I have to admit, I just do it for 2 hours now. Including 1 hour with a helper (much easier). But I know there are tools... Do you think a transmission adapter for a floor jack could be useful?
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+1 on the helper studs. Be mindful of the fact that on 5-speed cars, if you have the right side stub axle installed into the trans, it may foul just enough against the engine ear to prevent easy mate-up of the trans and engine (Jeff VanDyke reported this).

Of course you used a clutch plate line-up tool specific to FIATs to ensure that the clutch plate is properly positioned between the flywheel and pressure plate, yes? And it may help to ever so slightly rotate the input shaft to a new position after each attempt in the hope of getting all the splines aligned just so.
 
The one time I removed the trans without the engine, I just grabbed the trans, got it on my chest, and stuck it on. I think the 4 speed is only about 90 pounds. Of course, it probably helped that I used a pilot tool to precisely align the clutch disc to the flywheel.
 
The head studs used on the 1300s and early 1500s work well as guides to help you get the trans installed. Bench pressing the thing into place works well if you're able.
 
Yves said:
I imagine that you put a support under the bottom of the oil pan ... decrease the elevation of the engine, this will allow you more play between the car frame wall and the transmision five case.

Daniel if you need help let me know, i'm not far.

Yves
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Yes. I support the engine with a hydraulic bottle jack and some wood pieces under the oil pan.
Thanks for the offer Yves. I will let you know if I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown, but right now, I was just looking for ideas for a tool or some tips to do the job more easily.

Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
+1 on the helper studs. Be mindful of the fact that on 5-speed cars, if you have the right side stub axle installed into the trans, it may foul just enough against the engine ear to prevent easy mate-up of the trans and engine (Jeff VanDyke reported this).

Of course you used a clutch plate line-up tool specific to FIATs to ensure that the clutch plate is properly positioned between the flywheel and pressure plate, yes? And it may help to ever so slightly rotate the input shaft to a new position after each attempt in the hope of getting all the splines aligned just so.
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The axle stub is a nuisance because it tend to be stuck behind the flywheel, so I have to work around it before aligning the transmission with the bolt holes. I will try the helper stud. And yes, I have the Fiat tool to line-up the friction plate correctly. At each fail tentative, when the transmission is on the floor or just far from the engine, I recheck the centering of the clutch.
 
No help for this episode but this is why I never separate engine and trans in the car. Believe it or not it's easier for me to drop the whole drivetrain and then separate. And even out of the car they can be a pain to put together.
 
Can't jinx myself by saying this now, but I always just manhandled the transaxle back onto the motor without any problem.
 
lookforjoe said:
Can't jinx myself by saying this now, but I always just manhandled the transaxle back onto the motor without any problem.
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Lucky you. The first time I had to do it, 30 years ago, I gave up after 8 hours and called a guy who was doing mechanics at the customers place. Later, he became my best friend. At 68, he slowed down a bit, no longer doing muffler jobs outside in the middle of the canadian winter.
 
For decades I just sat on the floor in the wheel wheel opening and lifted it into place. Easy peasy. While I can still do it its a lot more work now. So I tend to use a hoist now.

The guide studs are very helpful. old head studs work great but I have a set of old threaded rod that does the job and are cut to the desired length. I also cut a slot on the end so I can back them out with a screwdriver after fitting the transmission.
 
Thread size for the two top transaxle holes are M12 x 1.25. Same size as early combo stud-bolt cylinder head studs. The studs can work as line up-support studs. Better would be to order up (use two alignment pins, works better than one) the longest M12 x1.25 cap screw (120mm long, grade 8.8) from McMaster carr or similar, cut the head off, add a long shallow angle chamfer, slot or hex the unthreaded area for removal of the stud once the transaxle is in place. Make absolute sure the clutch disc is lined up with the proper clutch alignment tool. Check to see if the alignment sleeve is in place on the M12 stud. Place the transaxle-engine cover plate on the alignment studs. Engage a gear on the transaxle (5th or _). Fixing a strap to the balance point of the transaxle then apply a hoist to lift the transaxle in place on the alignment studs. Slide the transaxle to meet cutch disc. Rotate both transaxle output flanges to aid in alignment of the transaxle input shaft splines to the clutch disc splines (alternative method for the 4sp as it has internal tripod joint. If all goes well, the transaxle will seat on to the engine. First fastener should be the M12 nut and washer. Install the opposing M12 cap screw, then remove the M12 alignment studs and install the remaining hardware and cover plates.

Bernice
 
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I didn't figure out turning the flanges for the driveshafts will turn the shaft to align the splines. That is going to be my next step.

I did the helper stud. Manage to get the transmission on the helper stud, then on the other stud. I worked a few hours pulling, pushing, highering, lowering the transmission without being able to move the shaft into the clutch splines. I have the Fiat factory tool to aligh the clutch, so I know it was correct when I fitted the transmission. But it could have slip if I tried to push the shaft in the wrong place. So after a few last attempts, I was going to remove the transmission to re-re-check the centering of the clutch. But now, I can't remove it! The 2 studs prevent rocking the transmission on the side and the flange for the driveshaft isn't willing to move over the flywheel. So my next step was to remove the flange, but I choosed to consult the forum before. So:
1) I will try to turn the flange. Maybe that will be enough to enter the shaft into the clutch center
2) If that didn't work: Remove the transmission to center the clutch again. It will help a lot to remove and reinstall if I remove the driveshaft flange. Is it as simple as unbolting and pullint the flange or am I going to go into more troubles?
 
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DanielForest said:
Remove the transmission to center the clutch again
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Before you do that, try turning the driveshafts to rotate the input shaft. The transission has to be in gear for this to work, of course.

If that doesn't help and you have to give up and pull the transmission again, also verify that the clutch disk will slide onto the transmission input shaft. Defective disks and messed up splines have been know to happen.
 
I doubt the clutch disk has moved, they are held firmly in place by the pressure plate.
You can also turn the crankshaft to align the splines. So for example if the trans is in neutral and you cannot get it into gear without the shifter installed, then try turning the crankshaft from the front pulley (remove the sparkplugs to make it easier to turn).
 
Thanks for the tips. But no change. I worked another 90 minutes on it. Turning the crank to try to aligh the splines, then rocking and lifting and... nothing. IIRC, the pressure plate bolts are not under heavy torque. Something like 28lbs only. I had to re-center the friction plate once between removals last week.

My choices are now:
1) remove the transmission again to check the centering of the clutch plate.
To do so, I will need to
1.1 Remove the helper stud so I coud rock the transmission to the side and the flange will clear the flywheel
or
1.2 Remove the flange on the transmission near the flywheel. Which will also help when refitting. Do I just need to remove the bolt on the other end or is there some other trick I haven't discovered yet? My last (and only one) transmission dismantling is 20 years ago, so I don't remember what is lurking beneath...

2) My other choice would be to remove the engine and refit the transmission on the ground. But I'm afraid the long nuts under the exhaust downpipe may be welded (rusted) to the bolt and I will break some. So I will end-up with even more work. That would make sense if I had a long winter in the garage to work on it, but I would like the car to be running before end of October and we already had some freezing overnight in Québec.☃
 
DanielForest said:
I had to re-center the friction plate once between removals last week.
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That sounds wrong to me... I’ve never been able to move the clutch disk around once the pressure plate is bolted down, would expect the clutch to slip when driving if the pressure plate didn’t hold it firmly in place. Check that the pressure plate is good, that it’s bolted down flat to the flywheel with nothing interfering and all the locating dowels positioned properly.
Remove the flange on the transmission near the flywheel. Which will also help when refitting. Do I just need to remove the bolt on the other end or is there some other trick I haven't discovered yet?
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It’s been a while since I’ve messed with a five-speed, but my recollection is that the stub axles just pop out under the influence of a slide hammer.
 
I installed mine several months ago and had difficulty with the gearbox clearing the control arm bracket at the rear. I had to use a car jack to push the motor towards the front of the car and the gearbox slid straight in. I had to screw the nut onto the stud to pull the gearbox in so i could attach the rest of the bolts.
 
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