WHEEL QUESTION !!!
- Thread starter eflexter
- Start date
Rooster
piccole ma cattive
Unless your running coil overs and/or have your fenders rolled, your going to run into alot of issues as most 4x100 wheels are made for front wheel drive cars. I.E.- completely wrong back spacing.
FWIW, I'm running FWD wheels on my Yellow X, but I also have 2.5" springs with coil overs. I still bend up a front fender every now and again. But that may be due to the 225/40-14's I'm running. It'll all be resolved when I roll the fenders tho'.
FWIW, I'm running FWD wheels on my Yellow X, but I also have 2.5" springs with coil overs. I still bend up a front fender every now and again. But that may be due to the 225/40-14's I'm running. It'll all be resolved when I roll the fenders tho'.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
This is basically the setup I am running...
on my Scorpion. Progressive 5 spoke 15x6, 4x100 aftermarket wheels, with a spacer plate, studs, and wobble nuts.
No rubbing problems, but then I am running coilovers. I haven't tried it but I think it may fit with the standard strut - I may have to tune the thickness of the spacer plate, but I bet it would fit. They are 6 inch rims running 195/50/15 front and 205/50/15 rear.
I don't know what the offset is on Miata wheels, specifically. But as pointed out above, 4x100 wheels tend to have FWD-type offsets, which would move the wheel inboard. However, you mention using those adapter plates, which are usually 1, 1.25 or 1.5 inches thick. So if the standard X wheel offset is 24 (let's say for discussions sake), then running a 1 inch spacer plate and a wheel that has an offset that is 25mm away from 24 should put the tire in exactly the same place as it is now.
I think it's do-able, I will be looking into this more myself for my X. This time around I'll probably get wheel adapters instead the Scorpion setup.
Pete
on my Scorpion. Progressive 5 spoke 15x6, 4x100 aftermarket wheels, with a spacer plate, studs, and wobble nuts.
No rubbing problems, but then I am running coilovers. I haven't tried it but I think it may fit with the standard strut - I may have to tune the thickness of the spacer plate, but I bet it would fit. They are 6 inch rims running 195/50/15 front and 205/50/15 rear.
I don't know what the offset is on Miata wheels, specifically. But as pointed out above, 4x100 wheels tend to have FWD-type offsets, which would move the wheel inboard. However, you mention using those adapter plates, which are usually 1, 1.25 or 1.5 inches thick. So if the standard X wheel offset is 24 (let's say for discussions sake), then running a 1 inch spacer plate and a wheel that has an offset that is 25mm away from 24 should put the tire in exactly the same place as it is now.
I think it's do-able, I will be looking into this more myself for my X. This time around I'll probably get wheel adapters instead the Scorpion setup.
Pete
eflexter
Eddie Flexter
MATH?????
Looks like Miata's are offset 45mm. The spacers are 30mm thick. So that would only push the wheel out about 5mm. I don't know if the X's offset includes that stock spacer or not.
Another GREAT possibility is VW wheels which are the same offset. Some of the GTI wheels are VERY nice, and very available. I'd sure feel better if somone has experience though.
But the math works....
Looks like Miata's are offset 45mm. The spacers are 30mm thick. So that would only push the wheel out about 5mm. I don't know if the X's offset includes that stock spacer or not.
Another GREAT possibility is VW wheels which are the same offset. Some of the GTI wheels are VERY nice, and very available. I'd sure feel better if somone has experience though.
But the math works....
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Don't know about any links...
Wikipedia probably has something on it tho.
It's basically the distance from the hub flange (the part that presses against the brake rotor/spacer plate) to the centerline of the wheel. So it can be a positive or negative number - it is "relative" (as opposed to backspacing, which is absolute).
Let's say you have a 6 inch wide rim whose backspacing is 3 inches. This is a "zero offset" rim, because the mounting flange is in the center. If it had 4 inch backspacing (moving the tire more inboard), then it has a 1 inch offset. In this case it would be a positive offset. If the backspacing was 2 inches (moving the tire outboard), it would also have 1 inch of offset, but it would be considered negative offset.
Pete
Wikipedia probably has something on it tho.
It's basically the distance from the hub flange (the part that presses against the brake rotor/spacer plate) to the centerline of the wheel. So it can be a positive or negative number - it is "relative" (as opposed to backspacing, which is absolute).
Let's say you have a 6 inch wide rim whose backspacing is 3 inches. This is a "zero offset" rim, because the mounting flange is in the center. If it had 4 inch backspacing (moving the tire more inboard), then it has a 1 inch offset. In this case it would be a positive offset. If the backspacing was 2 inches (moving the tire outboard), it would also have 1 inch of offset, but it would be considered negative offset.
Pete
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Actually, I see Backspacing and Offset as TWO....
... independant issues.
Take a 6 inch wide wheel again... with 3 inches of backspacing... it would essentially have 0 offset.
An 8 inch wide wheel with 3 inches of backspacing again... would essentially have 2 inches of negative offset.
In this case... if the 6 inch wheel fit the hub and cleared the struts... so would the 8 inch wheel, as the additional 2 inches is on the front side... (which now may not clear the outer fenderwell.
I could go one with HUNDREDS of variations but what I'm really trying to say is... Ya gotta consider 1) offset, 2) backspacing, 3) width, AND the 4) diameter of the wheel and tire which includes the overall height.
There are Tire Calulators that can help you... but it is always good to have a FRIENDLY tire man that will mount ONE for ya and actually SEE if it will work on both the FRONT and REAR of the car.
Mistakes in this arena be they tire, wheel, suspension and/or spacers and adapters are EXPENSIVE. Do a lot of homework...
... independant issues.
Take a 6 inch wide wheel again... with 3 inches of backspacing... it would essentially have 0 offset.
An 8 inch wide wheel with 3 inches of backspacing again... would essentially have 2 inches of negative offset.
In this case... if the 6 inch wheel fit the hub and cleared the struts... so would the 8 inch wheel, as the additional 2 inches is on the front side... (which now may not clear the outer fenderwell.
I could go one with HUNDREDS of variations but what I'm really trying to say is... Ya gotta consider 1) offset, 2) backspacing, 3) width, AND the 4) diameter of the wheel and tire which includes the overall height.
There are Tire Calulators that can help you... but it is always good to have a FRIENDLY tire man that will mount ONE for ya and actually SEE if it will work on both the FRONT and REAR of the car.
Mistakes in this arena be they tire, wheel, suspension and/or spacers and adapters are EXPENSIVE. Do a lot of homework...
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Pete Whitstone
True Classic
What you are talking about...
is changing the track width. In very general terms, increasing track width (moving the tires away from each other) is better for handling, although there are far too many variables to say that this will be the case with every car. Dallara X1/9s and many X1/9 based race cars use a greater track width. My race X has a greater-than-stock track width, and the combination of more track and wide wheels can make it somewhat darty, but it can take a corner faster than a stock X, so as with most things, it's a trade-off.
One negative effect that changing the track does have, is that it is harder on the wheel bearings. If you have a non-stock track width, you will want to keep a close eye on your bearings.
But if we go back to the formula of more positive offset (deeper backspacing) and the use of a spacer plate that is equal to the offset difference (between a stock wheel and the new wheel), then you will not alter the track width by much. Of course, that assumes that you use the same width of wheel. If you run a 6 inch wheel with the same backspacing as your stock 5 inch wheel, then you will have effectively increased your track width by an inch... it's all related, and no one can give you a positive "yes it will fit" or "no it won't fit" answer on the internet, unless they have done it with the same wheel, tire and suspension setup. Even then, car to car variances may come back to haunt you.
Best to stick with wheel widths that are close to stock (5, 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5 inches), decrease tire profile as rim size increases, and be very careful about measuring the offset and calculating everything out. Even then, no guarantees.
Pete
is changing the track width. In very general terms, increasing track width (moving the tires away from each other) is better for handling, although there are far too many variables to say that this will be the case with every car. Dallara X1/9s and many X1/9 based race cars use a greater track width. My race X has a greater-than-stock track width, and the combination of more track and wide wheels can make it somewhat darty, but it can take a corner faster than a stock X, so as with most things, it's a trade-off.
One negative effect that changing the track does have, is that it is harder on the wheel bearings. If you have a non-stock track width, you will want to keep a close eye on your bearings.
But if we go back to the formula of more positive offset (deeper backspacing) and the use of a spacer plate that is equal to the offset difference (between a stock wheel and the new wheel), then you will not alter the track width by much. Of course, that assumes that you use the same width of wheel. If you run a 6 inch wheel with the same backspacing as your stock 5 inch wheel, then you will have effectively increased your track width by an inch... it's all related, and no one can give you a positive "yes it will fit" or "no it won't fit" answer on the internet, unless they have done it with the same wheel, tire and suspension setup. Even then, car to car variances may come back to haunt you.
Best to stick with wheel widths that are close to stock (5, 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5 inches), decrease tire profile as rim size increases, and be very careful about measuring the offset and calculating everything out. Even then, no guarantees.
Pete
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Yep... and nope... depends what yur after...
Pete covered it well...
Also note that handling is ENHANCED sometimes by a narrower overall width... used in dragsters and land speed record cars! They wanna go straight!
Pete covered it well...
Also note that handling is ENHANCED sometimes by a narrower overall width... used in dragsters and land speed record cars! They wanna go straight!
petex19
True Classic
I'm running 4x100 wheels and with coilovers aswell but I had my hubs drilled 4x100 opposite the stock 4x98 holes and had lugs pressed in. They are +40mm offset and my wheels are 205/40/16 (fronts) and 205/40/17 (rears) both fronts and rears are 7" wide and fit nicely within the fenders with no modifications at all.
'PeteX1/9
'PeteX1/9
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
HOLD ON THERE, Cowboy...
With those coil-overs you have lots more clearance now than with the stock springs... Like YOU said... WITH COILOVERS... and coilovers being the operative word!
Don't be tellin' the po' folk here ya can just throw on some 7 inch wide rims with those tires and all will be well. It MIGHT be... but then again... as I said before, mistakes in this arena can be EXPENSIVE.
(Nice work by the way... and you will be hitting those inner fenders with 2 dollars worth of undercoating before ya post any more fotos, right? HA!)
With those coil-overs you have lots more clearance now than with the stock springs... Like YOU said... WITH COILOVERS... and coilovers being the operative word!
Don't be tellin' the po' folk here ya can just throw on some 7 inch wide rims with those tires and all will be well. It MIGHT be... but then again... as I said before, mistakes in this arena can be EXPENSIVE.
(Nice work by the way... and you will be hitting those inner fenders with 2 dollars worth of undercoating before ya post any more fotos, right? HA!)
bikesandcars
True Classic
Most 4x100 wheels are in the 25mm to 42 mm offset range.
If you go to ebay and buy these lug-centric adapters http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WHEE...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
you can run 15x7 wheels with a 40 mm offset with no fender mods (if your car isn't lowered).
My old VW wheels fit fine without tweaking.
The 25mm offset racing wheels we used rubbed, and we had to cut the fenders.
if you use 15"x6" wheels you shouldn't have any problems.
We run 195/50 R15's.
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures running the higher offset BBS VW wheels, but I have lots of pictures with the wider wheels http://www.cwmotorsport.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=597
If you go to ebay and buy these lug-centric adapters http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WHEE...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
you can run 15x7 wheels with a 40 mm offset with no fender mods (if your car isn't lowered).
My old VW wheels fit fine without tweaking.
The 25mm offset racing wheels we used rubbed, and we had to cut the fenders.
if you use 15"x6" wheels you shouldn't have any problems.
We run 195/50 R15's.
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures running the higher offset BBS VW wheels, but I have lots of pictures with the wider wheels http://www.cwmotorsport.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=597
eflexter
Eddie Flexter
THANKS!!!
I'm confident enough to go ahead with this now and invest in lots of parts.
I didn't want to alter the stock wheel base width. The X is already twitchy on the highway, I didn't want to make it worse.
From a safety aspect, the further away from center you get, the more pressure is exerted back into the steering wheel. Of course when both tires do the same, you don't feel it. BUT if you have a blow out, it could rip the wheel right out of your hands.
My goal for my X has always been RELIABILITY. So I like to keep it pretty stock, unless it makes the car better. But cosmetic improvements never hurt anything!!!!
I'm confident enough to go ahead with this now and invest in lots of parts.
I didn't want to alter the stock wheel base width. The X is already twitchy on the highway, I didn't want to make it worse.
From a safety aspect, the further away from center you get, the more pressure is exerted back into the steering wheel. Of course when both tires do the same, you don't feel it. BUT if you have a blow out, it could rip the wheel right out of your hands.
My goal for my X has always been RELIABILITY. So I like to keep it pretty stock, unless it makes the car better. But cosmetic improvements never hurt anything!!!!