Wheel studs, nuts, bolts and "conversions"...

Black-Tooth

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Just ordered a set of longer studs (44mm or 1 3/4") for my ride and these came to me in less than 2 days for about $25 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Wheel-St...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

These folks call them a "conversion" which they are not, BUT, they do have our 12 x 1.25 mm studs in various lengths AND conversions from 12 x 1.25, to 12 x 1.00 and 12 x 1.50. This would be a good option if you have the more "standard" types of lug nuts just lying around.

They also carry lug BOLTS and NUTS in our size as well.

Just sayin'...
 
I've used these also on older Volvos - to convert from 12x1.5 lug bolts - 12x1.25 is a much more widely used pitch so getting a wider variety of lug nuts is then possible :D

I used them on my X1/9 early on to accommodate the 'wobble' nuts/washer setup of the Amercian Racing wheels :)
 
I found that the studs I ordered above were 44mm overall, when I had wrongfully assumed they were 44mm on the long end.

I see now that most all are measured OVERALL.

I found this site yesterday and the example below is for 60mm, but they carry many different lengths up to 100mm. They are in the UK and a $28 dollar order in "pounds" comes to about $38 dollars US, including shipping! I chose the least expensive shipping by "air" and they replied this morning that the studs are on their way. I'll update this site when I get them.

http://www.rallynuts.com/search/for/12+x+1.25+x+12+x+1.25+studs/
 
I was wondering if 44mm is long enough...I think way back in time when I made my own studs for a set of Biturbo rims, they were 56mm total. 44 may be adequate for stock wheels?
 
Fiataccompli said:
I was wondering if 44mm is long enough...I think way back in time when I made my own studs for a set of Biturbo rims, they were 56mm total. 44 may be adequate for stock wheels?
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Yes...

I have a thicker than normal flange (versus the steel wheels) and "shouldered" lug NUTS... so the wheels are "lug-centric", and not hub-centric like many others or the stock steel.

I believe that 44mm is indeed the standard (overall) length for the stock wheels and one spacer with no problems.

BTW, if anyone needs a set of 16 or 20 - 44mm studs, contact me via PM. I'll post that in the FS&W section as well.
 
I am considering changing my setup, would the conversion kit for the "new" Fiat 500 work? Provided the length is right. Really I'm wondering if the nut taper would work for X.

I see this kit for a mini that looks perfect (though the studs seem long)
Mini kit

And why is it not possible to get something like this
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...2Xm7uNazLe2TqGHJc34KgQPsAMzOkSeYaAnhbEALw_wcB

But threaded all the way. Just screw it in from the back and be done. I think I would feel a little happier with a carriage style bolt.
 
Studs and nuts is a nice conversion. Just make sure you get the right bits. Stud length required depends on the wheels being used and whether you need any spacers to clear you suspension, etc. MWB sells the studs and nuts in various sizes. They have open and closed end acorn nuts depending on how finished you want the wheels to look. I have switched back and forth between typical Fiat lug bolts and "lugs/nuts" several times depending on the wheel set I have on my Xs.

I am not sure what kits you are referring to for the new Fiat 500, but the length of the stud should be checked. I "think" the nut tapers are the same as many of the new 15" wheels are marketed for both the 500s and the older Fiats.
 
carl said:
I convert all my old Fiats to studs. I just use the kit the MWB sells.
Click to expand...
I did the same. But I think one of the kit was from MWB and the other was good-ol'-time a threaded rod cut to the required lenght and some die to clean the ends. There was a time were such kits weren't available.

Since I'm planning to use some 15x8 4x100 wheels for my everyday use and keem my nice 13x8 4x98 wheels for racing, I have search for wobble (variation) nuts. But they are not easy to find (some on ebay) and none were open ends. If you know a source, let me know!
 
Stud replacements/conversions can be found online from several sources. Although the Fiat thread pitch is not common they are available from most specialty wheel accessory places in a wide range of options.

Note that there should be a "non-threaded" section somewhere in the middle of the stud (see pic below, red arrow). This is for two purposes; 1) to help secure the stud tightly into the hub by bottoming that section out against the hub, and 2) it serves as a 'stop' for threading the stud in...preventing the stud from going too far into the hub. That second point is important because if the stud threads too far through the hub it will foul against other components and either "machine" a big groove in those components or prevent the hub from rotating at all. Without the non-threaded section to prevent this the stud can work its way too far in each time the nut is tightened. [Not all conversion studs have this but it is critical so don't opt for ones that do not.] Therefore with the studs having two segments (either side of the non-threaded flat), not only is the length of the stud through the wheel important, so is the length going into the hub.

Another feature to consider is the possibility of having two different thread pitches at the two ends of the stud (green arrows in pic). This can be very handy, especially for our oddball Fiats. It can allow the portion going into the hub to be correct for the car, but the portion going through the wheel can be a more common thread so a larger selection of nuts can be used. Such as the nut shown in the pic or for easy to find (common thread) "wobble nuts".


aaf-all17030.jpg


Something else I find useful is the inclusion of a 'hex-key' socket-head recess in the outer end of the stud (see pic below). Again, not all of them have it. This not only makes installing and removing the studs easy, but it allows them to be properly torqued.

MRG-Titanium-Studs-standard.jpg


It might be worth mentioning that set in the pic above is titanium, for those of you who want to utmost in light weight and strength.
 
The MWB studs have the non threaded section, hex hey head and a non threaded "starter" section at the end of the stud. Get the real long studs and open end nuts and you will impress everyone with your "racer" wheel attachment.
 
carl said:
The MWB studs have the non threaded section, hex hey head and a non threaded "starter" section at the end of the stud. Get the real long studs and open end nuts and you will impress everyone with your "racer" wheel attachment.
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As you say, they are have a very "racer" look. ;) There may be those that do not want that look for a street or show car however. In that case ones without the extended nose and closed (e.g. acorn) nuts might be better. All depends on the style of the build. :) But that extended "bull nose" tip and extra length does make it easier getting the wheels on.
 
I was looking onto the threaded rod. $16 for enough threaded rod vs $100 for a kit (+/- nuts but included with the midwest kit) but that's in US funds and exchange now is daft, shipping to Canada is pretty expensive as well and border delays are really unpredictable and usually long (not that I'm really in a rush)

The Bayless kit is actually about the best priced kit I've found.

I realize the point of the non threaded section, but to make it a permanent thing I could always tack the back side and they would never move. I don't think I'd trust lock tight.... maybe... I think I'd at least weld some sort of head on it to tighten it up and use lock tight.

Still the cost of the Bayless kit is reasonable, shipping may not be.

I was kind of thinking long as well, that would let me change my wheels and add (or not) spacers.
 
ricar said:
I was looking onto the threaded rod. $16 for enough threaded rod vs $100 for a kit (+/- nuts but included with the midwest kit) but that's in US funds and exchange now is daft, shipping to Canada is pretty expensive as well and border delays are really unpredictable and usually long (not that I'm really in a rush)

The Bayless kit is actually about the best priced kit I've found.

I realize the point of the non threaded section, but to make it a permanent thing I could always tack the back side and they would never move. I don't think I'd trust lock tight.... maybe... I think I'd at least weld some sort of head on it to tighten it up and use lock tight.

Still the cost of the Bayless kit is reasonable, shipping may not be.

I was kind of thinking long as well, that would let me change my wheels and add (or not) spacers.
Click to expand...
You won't be able to have any head on the studs as there isn't the clearance behind the hub for them. Also threaded rod isn't strong enough for this application.
 
While generic threaded rod may not be strong enough, you can buy extra long bolts and just cut the heads off...although long bolts tend to have long unthreaded shanks. Tack weld behind the hub flange should work to retain the studs. Funny how such a simple issue becomes a major headache for you Canadians.
 
We lost a wheel due to broken studs while racing the 24 Hours of Lemons in Houston last week. The brake rotor then gouged a hole, ruining the wheel. We didn't have a spare 15" wheel. So we ran Walmart all seasons on 13" factory wheels on front and two of the three remaining 15" wheels on the rear. Handling was a bit degraded on corners, and the Walmart all-season tires squealed a bit, but we were on track turning laps and finished 59th out of 110 despite spending three hours off the track swapping out the damaged rear hub and A-arm.

The wheels were torqued that morning prior to starting the race.
PXL_20221105_171331355.jpg
IMG_20221105_121750_01.jpg
 
I've been using full threaded rod for studs on my GP racecar for 20 years and more. They are pretty long too as I use fairly thick spacers. I've never had a failure, but I do make a point of tightening the lug nuts between sessions. I do this mostly out of habit because they don't loosen up once they've been torqued. I've been carrying spares with me since I installed the all thread studs, mostly for use if the threads got damaged when threading a lug nut on. I will use them again when the time comes.

One plus of using threaded rod is the low cost. Other pluses are ready availability, and the ability to cut them to the length you require.

Just my experience, take it for what its worth.

If you feel the threaded rod isn't up to the task, I urge you to use something else.
 
In the dark ages when 12x1.25 stud conversion sets where much more difficult to come by, I made a set of studs using some type of threaded rod (did the ME strength assessment, but the threads were *not* hardened, which proved to be annoying). I used a touch of weld to create the blank area referenced above & let the studs bite into the hub a bit to better lock.
 
You can get threaded rod in the 10.9 which many studs seem to be made of. I'm not sure what grade bolts the factory ones are.
 
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