When is some rust too much rust?

Rupunzell said:
Or do the evapo-rust thing, followed by, proper prep for zinc phosphate primer (thick coat), paint then rock chip resistant under coating..
www.evapo-rust.com

The Best Rust Remover | Quick & Easy with CRC's Evapo-Rust®

CRC's Evapo-Rust® Heavy Duty Rust Remover will remove rust to bare metal in minutes without scrubbing. It is also biodegradable and reusable!
www.evapo-rust.com www.evapo-rust.com

Bernice
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I was going to question how much evaporust treating the underside of a car would take when I spotted evaporust now comes in a gel form. I guess it would be harder to reuse but we could prep large items like cars with it.
Anyone tried it?
I wonder if I can get it here....🤔
 
It seems like the POR15 holds well to the rust but flakes off on the good clean metal. I used it at the start of my restoration but stopped using it as I learned more. It is also questionable how will finishing paint will stick to it. Moving forward I am with Bernice on my approach to Rust. Fortunately my car was pretty clean in that respect.
 
I've used Por-15 and Rust Bullet. Both are equivalent with maybe a nod to the Rust Bullet. I don't use either any more.

Seems that they both allowed continued rust below the treatment. They both slowed the rust down and success is highly dependent on preparation. If you read the instructions, the prep is a rather involved process that likely no one follows.

My current take on rust is
  1. Cut it out and replace with clean metal (best, but most invasive method. and certainly not the path for the OP)
  2. If not cutting it out (like the A pillars on the Alfetta)
    1. Wire wheel or the red Harbor Freight abrasive thing below. These really work well at getting into the rust "pits" and keep the heat down. They are my go to for stripping panels.
    2. Once the "loose rust" and well attached iron oxide are removed, I use a phosphating converter. My current favorite below. This also provides some phosphate coating on the bare steel, and can wick into seams.
    3. Epoxy primer is next. Then body work.
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And as Neil Young says "Rust never sleeps" :)
 
It's true that the only way for proper rust remediation is replacement metal, blasting, or EvapoRust for smaller stuff depending on how advanced the rust is. I don't use POR-15 because, as noted above, it doesn't stick to clean metal, it is very brittle making it susceptible to cracking from flex and temperature variations. I have used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator for decades and have never had a failure. Mitigate the rust the best you can, spray two coats of rust encapsulator followed by a coat of 2K primer and your topcoat. It sticks equally well to clean and rusted metal. I only use this for areas that would be very difficult to blast, or weld-in replacement metal. But to put this in perspective, if you are working on a $5K car, you don't necessarily make the same choices you would on a $100K car. Many of our cars have had rough lives. Most of us tend to be a little more careful that blasting down salted roads, so it's harder to gauge the effectiveness of a coated piece. The rust shown on the '74 is typical surface rust found even on California cars, and if it was garaged in a low humidity locale and not driven in weather it would likely look the same in 10 years with no treatment of any kind.

A real world example of severe abuse is my pool heater. My wife put a bag of fertilizer on top of it and over time the caustic material leaked out and destroyed the finish. When I removed the bag, I had about a 10"x10" area that was rusted and deeply pitted. I don't like honey-do housework, so I figured I'd wire brush the area hit it with Rust Encapsulator. I didn't even prime it, just top coated with some Rustoleum I had lying around just to get it overwith. That was about 5-6 years ago so I went out to take a look. No sign of any finish failure or rust of any kind. It sits in direct sunlight and exposed to rain. It's reached the end of it's life cycle and being replaced shortly with a heater that uses some poly-plastic derivative because these thing are prone to rust, but it certainly did hold up well. Actually the internals gave up the ghost far before the top was ever an issue again. If you decide to give it a try there are 2 different products now. The old cheaper formulation is the one to get. The new and improved premium version is more like POR. You open the can and whatever you don't use is waste. It will lock the top of the can closed no matter how spotless it is when you put the cover back on. The old stuff is like primer and can thinned with lacquer thinner to spray. It can be sealed back up without a problem. The can I used on the pool heater was actually 10 years old. Took a heck of a lot of mixing, but still did the job.
 
I've heard good things about Rust Encapsulator too. Never have personally used it. Good to know about the "new" formula.
 
jimmyx said:
It's true that the only way for proper rust remediation is replacement metal, blasting, or EvapoRust for smaller stuff depending on how advanced the rust is. I don't use POR-15 because, as noted above, it doesn't stick to clean metal, it is very brittle making it susceptible to cracking from flex and temperature variations. I have used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator for decades and have never had a failure. Mitigate the rust the best you can, spray two coats of rust encapsulator followed by a coat of 2K primer and your topcoat. It sticks equally well to clean and rusted metal. I only use this for areas that would be very difficult to blast, or weld-in replacement metal. But to put this in perspective, if you are working on a $5K car, you don't necessarily make the same choices you would on a $100K car. Many of our cars have had rough lives. Most of us tend to be a little more careful that blasting down salted roads, so it's harder to gauge the effectiveness of a coated piece. The rust shown on the '74 is typical surface rust found even on California cars, and if it was garaged in a low humidity locale and not driven in weather it would likely look the same in 10 years with no treatment of any kind.

A real world example of severe abuse is my pool heater. My wife put a bag of fertilizer on top of it and over time the caustic material leaked out and destroyed the finish. When I removed the bag, I had about a 10"x10" area that was rusted and deeply pitted. I don't like honey-do housework, so I figured I'd wire brush the area hit it with Rust Encapsulator. I didn't even prime it, just top coated with some Rustoleum I had lying around just to get it overwith. That was about 5-6 years ago so I went out to take a look. No sign of any finish failure or rust of any kind. It sits in direct sunlight and exposed to rain. It's reached the end of it's life cycle and being replaced shortly with a heater that uses some poly-plastic derivative because these thing are prone to rust, but it certainly did hold up well. Actually the internals gave up the ghost far before the top was ever an issue again. If you decide to give it a try there are 2 different products now. The old cheaper formulation is the one to get. The new and improved premium version is more like POR. You open the can and whatever you don't use is waste. It will lock the top of the can closed no matter how spotless it is when you put the cover back on. The old stuff is like primer and can thinned with lacquer thinner to spray. It can be sealed back up without a problem. The can I used on the pool heater was actually 10 years old. Took a heck of a lot of mixing, but still did the job.
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Thanks - this was helpful in trying to find a balance to do enough now to help save an X, enjoy it on dry days, while acknowledging that it is not a 100k classic ( only to me).
 
Bobkat said:
I would have that Ice blasted to see where you are. You may be surprised how good the condition is. The maybe some spot blasting with glass bead water slurry on anything that the ice does not remove. Then paint or undercoat.
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Ice? Water? I am currently even afraid to wash her with water so am trying waterless washes.
 
LexZ said:
Thanks - this was helpful in trying to find a balance to do enough now to help save an X, enjoy it on dry days, while acknowledging that it is not a 100k classic ( only to me).
Click to expand...
Market value of the exxe is irrelevant, market value is perceived and decided by brand identity based on "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"..
There is zilch reason why the exxe should not be treated as it the moto was a rare exotic as it is in many ways a coach built low production speciality moto.. abandoned by Fiat, appreciated by the very few for what the exxe really is.


Bernice
 
Look at it this way. About 15,000 Ferrari 308 series [inc variants] were built between 75 and 85. About 160,000 X over a similar period. But - something like 90% of those 308s have survived. Say 13,500 still exist. But in the case of the X, how many survive? All the estimates I've seen guess less than 10%. Say 16,000 still exist. I reckon it is more like 5% and at the rate they are trashed and parted out, that is falling. Here is Australia, way more common to see a 308 than an X. I have seen exactly one X driving around in the last 10 years - that was in Melbourne. in 2015. I have seen somewhere over ten 308 in the same period.
 
How many members here? Most own at least 1 X and many have multiple. I have 2. I think 10% is low.
 
JKIDD said:
How many members here? Most own at least 1 X and many have multiple. I have 2. I think 10% is low.
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4,649 members. So if it was, say, 10%, then that means an average of 3.4 each. But there will be people with cars who are not members. I would be very surprised if average member ownership was 3. Looking at signatures and discussions, I think the majority have 1. Have had more than 1 but own 1 at a time. Sure there was a thread about numbers based on registrations?
 
Steve Thomas said:
Look at it this way. About 15,000 Ferrari 308 series [inc variants] were built between 75 and 85. About 160,000 X over a similar period. But - something like 90% of those 308s have survived. Say 13,500 still exist. But in the case of the X, how many survive? All the estimates I've seen guess less than 10%. Say 16,000 still exist. I reckon it is more like 5% and at the rate they are trashed and parted out, that is falling. Here is Australia, way more common to see a 308 than an X. I have seen exactly one X driving around in the last 10 years - that was in Melbourne. in 2015. I have seen somewhere over ten 308 in the same period.
Click to expand...

Steve Thomas said:
. I think 10% is low.
Click to expand...

Hey guys. The survival rate IS indeed known. At least for the UK and North America.

The North American ( well USA and Canada ) info is now 5 years old, so surely current survival rate is now less. Current UK data is available. I reckon Mark W. in australia knows the numbers down there....

It is thought that about 160,000 X1/9s were produced. With likely about 100K of those sent to North America.

If you want to play along.....how many X1/9s were currently registered and plated at that time ? Take your best guess...then I'll post the answers...
 
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