X1/9 restomod-ish project

[dirtywaterfab]

Steering wheel question - Will a wheel from a newer 500 fit the X steering column?

 

[Steve Thomas]

pushrod

much prefer pullrod myself. Put the bellcrank pivot on a spaceframe outrigger inside the lower wishbone. Get the pullrod as close to vertical as you can, run a 90 degree [ish] bellcrank and mount the coilovers horizontally - lowest CoG.

 

[autox19]

This is the Midlana front suspension I mentioned in an earlier post. One can see the lower pushrod mount is just inboard of the lower ball joint pivot, at the furthest extent possible on the lower a-arm. And as Bernice points out, is the preferred arrangement. My lower a-arm will have an identical layout.

I'll be running coilovers. The technical term escapes me but as I'm sure you all know the angle of the coilover is critical - the closer to vertical the better, which allows a softer spring which in turn results in a more supple and responsive suspension.

The 3rd pic shows the inboard spring perch above and outboard of the frame tubes. My car will be similar except there will be a tube connecting the two spring perches (drilled out and dimpled in true Italian fashion!) and triangulated into the chassis which will distribute loads across the entire subframe. I'll be mounting the coilovers as close to vertical as space allows.

the midlana is the project I am working on. picked up all the locost books including the midlana I am watching this thread for more info. amazing how much I look at the midlana and think it might be easier, albeit not as much fun, just to do another X

Odie

 

[dirtywaterfab]

the midlana is the project I am working on. picked up all the locost books including the midlana I am watching this thread for more info. amazing how much I look at the midlana and think it might be easier, albeit not as much fun, just to do another X

Odie

My original build plan was a "standalone" spaceframe chassis similar to Midlana, a 1960s sports racer tribute like the Lotus 23. Kurt of Trade's dad's build reminded me that modifying a production car would make it easier to get it street legal. Now I'm building the same spaceframe chassis, slightly modified to fit inside the X1/9 body shell. Speaking very abstractly, that's why I'm planning on cutting away as much OEM structure as is prudent and tying the new spaceframe into the remaining stubs and nodes. This way I get the same satisfaction of building the chassis design I have in my head and gain the benefit of not having to worry about building the body, sourcing a reasonably priced DOT windshield, and the mounting points for all of the RMV required components - lights, windshield wipers, etc - are included.

 

[dirtywaterfab]

much prefer pullrod myself. Put the bellcrank pivot on a spaceframe outrigger inside the lower wishbone. Get the pullrod as close to vertical as you can, run a 90 degree [ish] bellcrank and mount the coilovers horizontally - lowest CoG.

That should work fantastically. I want the old school look of coilovers.

 

[John in Iowa]

hey everyone. new member here and really rusty at working a forum like this so please bear with me.

i finally started a long simmering mid-engine space frame chassis build that only very recently took a turn into the X1/9 paddock.

i just bought this completely stripped and amazingly rust free (well...) 1982 Bertone X (if there's a better way to post pics, please let me know)

i've begun removing engine firewall sheetmetal to prepare for a roll cage build. next i'll be opening up the forward bulkhead a bit.

as for the rust, the footwells are perforated, replacement panels were bolted in place. also the front indicator light(?) opening below the headlights needs attention, and the chin spoiler is missing. the rockers are solid, the floor below the seats is a tiny bit punky in very small areas.

the idea is to keep the rockers and remaining floor in place. i'm hoping to have the roll cage tied into the rockers in order to preserve as much of the X as i can.

the second set of pics depict a Fiero-based chassis with a longitudinal drivetrain. i hope to turn my X into something similar.

i will be using a modified NA Miata suspension geometry, along with front and rear uprights. i will be increasing track from the stock Miata 53 in to 60 in. i'll be taking lots from the Midlana front end

i'll be running an Alfa Romeo 2L twin-cam mated to a 2002 - 2005 WRX 4.44 transaxle. so yeah, wheelbase will increase, i'm guessing, 10" to 12"

i hope to add late 70s IMSA Group 5 (i think) box flares, and the rear sheetmetal is gonna change quite a bit.

ok, first project update is done. i started all of this 2008 - learning about chassis and suspensions, building a shop, collecting parts, stealing as much as i can from the Web. i can't believe i'm finally cutting metal.

my next post i'm gonna share some A/B pics i modified slightly in MS Paint. but first maybe i should make a signature thing.

peace,
paul

Building a tube frame fiero

Here we go. Spent a lot of time trimming the center section of the chassis to get this: Estimated weight is 50 lbs. I left the windshield in till later to maintain alignment. Next item I needed was a simple jig to build the chassis on. Leveling screws are at each corner. Jig is level to...

www.fiero.nl

hey everyone. new member here and really rusty at working a forum like this so please bear with me.

i finally started a long simmering mid-engine space frame chassis build that only very recently took a turn into the X1/9 paddock.

i just bought this completely stripped and amazingly rust free (well...) 1982 Bertone X (if there's a better way to post pics, please let me know)

i've begun removing engine firewall sheetmetal to prepare for a roll cage build. next i'll be opening up the forward bulkhead a bit.

as for the rust, the footwells are perforated, replacement panels were bolted in place. also the front indicator light(?) opening below the headlights needs attention, and the chin spoiler is missing. the rockers are solid, the floor below the seats is a tiny bit punky in very small areas.

the idea is to keep the rockers and remaining floor in place. i'm hoping to have the roll cage tied into the rockers in order to preserve as much of the X as i can.

the second set of pics depict a Fiero-based chassis with a longitudinal drivetrain. i hope to turn my X into something similar.

i will be using a modified NA Miata suspension geometry, along with front and rear uprights. i will be increasing track from the stock Miata 53 in to 60 in. i'll be taking lots from the Midlana front end

i'll be running an Alfa Romeo 2L twin-cam mated to a 2002 - 2005 WRX 4.44 transaxle. so yeah, wheelbase will increase, i'm guessing, 10" to 12"

i hope to add late 70s IMSA Group 5 (i think) box flares, and the rear sheetmetal is gonna change quite a bit.

ok, first project update is done. i started all of this 2008 - learning about chassis and suspensions, building a shop, collecting parts, stealing as much as i can from the Web. i can't believe i'm finally cutting metal.

my next post i'm gonna share some A/B pics i modified slightly in MS Paint. but first maybe i should make a signature thing.

peace,
paul

Building a tube frame fiero

Here we go. Spent a lot of time trimming the center section of the chassis to get this: Estimated weight is 50 lbs. I left the windshield in till later to maintain alignment. Next item I needed was a simple jig to build the chassis on. Leveling screws are at each corner. Jig is level to...

www.fiero.nl

Impressive!

 

[dirtywaterfab]

Impressive!

Thanks! But now it's time to produce!

 

[Rupunzell]

That should work fantastically. I want the old school look of coilovers.

Looks or functionality?

Regardless of what suspension choice, it comes down to meeting a specific set of goals, requirements and needs.

Bernice

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Since this will be a street car and not a all out competitive race car, I might be inclined to keep things simple. For example ditch the push (or pull) rod design and mount the coilover in the more traditional location (the last pic in your earlier post (#20). Yes, ultimately that isn't a great as the other designs but much less involved to engineer correctly, more reliable (for a DIY build), and much less time consuming/complex to make. But I also get the desire to build one's dream....I do it all the time, so definitely pursue what you want it to be.

 

[dirtywaterfab]

Looks or functionality?

Are you saying coilovers won't work? Goals + requirements + needs + looks + a simpler build. All met with a classic coilover setup.

What's funny are your ongoing assumptions that I haven't worked through all of these questions already. You seem quite enamored by sound of your own voice, bleating the same question over and over again. I mean, is your goal to try to change my design decisions?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Never any reason not to have both looks and functionality.

 

[dirtywaterfab]

Since this will be a street car and not a all out competitive race car, I might be inclined to keep things simple. For example ditch the push (or pull) rod design and mount the coilover in the more traditional location (the last pic in your earlier post (#20). Yes, ultimately that isn't a great as the other designs but much less involved to engineer correctly, more reliable (for a DIY build), and much less time consuming/complex to make. But I also get the desire to build one's dream....I do it all the time, so definitely pursue what you want it to be.

Another thing that's really cool with the coilovers, the way the NA/NB rear upright-to-lower a-arm connection is designed I'll be able to mount the coilover's outboard eyelet directly to the bolt that mounts the upright to the lower a-arm, on the rearward side of the upright, as shown in the pic. Then when seen from the rear, a classic old school coilover look.

 

[Steve Thomas]

Looks or functionality?

Regardless of what suspension choice, it comes down to meeting a specific set of goals, requirements and needs.

Bernice

and there is nothing wrong with having an asthetic requirement in the mix.

 

[Steve Thomas]

Are you saying coilovers won't work? Goals + requirements + needs + looks + a simpler build. All met with a classic coilover setup.

What's funny are your ongoing assumptions that I haven't worked through all of these questions already. You seem quite enamored by sound of your own voice, bleating the same question over and over again. I mean, is your goal to try to change my design decisions?

Play nice. There is no malice in any of this. Yeah, we push buttons from time to time. It is worth listening to Rupunzell [deep exp] but if you don't want to integrate something any of us says, just smile and say "thanks for your input"

 

[kmead]

Are you saying coilovers won't work? Goals + requirements + needs + looks + a simpler build. All met with a classic coilover setup.

What's funny are your ongoing assumptions that I haven't worked through all of these questions already. You seem quite enamored by sound of your own voice, bleating the same question over and over again. I mean, is your goal to try to change my design decisions?

It’s called discourse. Many don’t actually understand, much less plan out solutions.

The timbre of this forum is always discussion and on occasion, debate.

Many here speak from experience and are doing their best in a less than perfect medium to share that experience. Some may have more experience than you. Might I suggest accepting their willingness to share rather than berating or insulting them for doing so.

Bernice is a good teacher if you are willing to listen. I don’t know what your experience and knowledge is, I do know some of hers which has been demonstrated both here and on the track and I know she is worth listening to.

So far you have offered pics of other’s work, you haven’t laid out your diagrams, spreadsheet or other explicit evidence of your design solution and how the system will function, merely your wants for the solution. Given this, don’t be surprised that some of us might repeat or reinforce points in our discussion with you.

In any case, play nice.

 

[dirtywaterfab]

It’s called discourse. Many don’t actually understand, much less plan out solutions.

The timbre of this forum is always discussion and on occasion, debate.

Many here speak from experience and are doing their best in a less than perfect medium to share that experience. Some may have more experience than you. Might I suggest accepting their willingness to share rather than berating or insulting them for doing so.

Bernice is a good teacher if you are willing to listen. I don’t know what your experience and knowledge is, I do know some of hers which has been demonstrated both here and on the track and I know she is worth listening to.

So far you have offered pics of other’s work, you haven’t laid out your diagrams, spreadsheet or other explicit evidence of your design solution and how the system will function, merely your wants for the solution. Given this, don’t be surprised that some of us might repeat or reinforce points in our discussion with you.

In any case, play nice.

you are absolutely correct. i lost my cool and i apologize to all, especially Bernice.

 

[kmead]

you are absolutely correct. i lost my cool and i apologize to all, especially Bernice.

Thanks. We all have our moments.

Please proceed, I look forward to learning from you as I have from others. I have been appropriately schooled by Bernice in the past (I am not an engineer and periodically show my ignorance) and am the better for it

 

[dirtywaterfab]

and periodically show my ignorance

I lead with my ignorance!