The wife wants me to get the AC going again

LarryC

LarryC

Curator of #10105275
Says cost is not an issue. What should I do? Ha!

O.K., so I have collected most of the discussions on upgrades, including many of TonyK's posts. But I thought that I would open up this can of worms for comments again.

Specific questions:
Did anybody ever find a solution to the receiver-dryer problem?

My blower motor seems to have conveniently died just this week, so it looks like time to get the box out anyway. Not looking forward to that.
 
Mine is working just fine.

Dryer options are to remove the old dryer and bake out any moisture or, replace the 2 short hoses between the condenser and dryer and the dryer and evaporator with ends that will match the new dryer.

I should put together a kit with a new dryer and hoses, but I have a lot of stuff to do at home.

If you have the box out, then replace the expansion valve it is a $20 item.

I am going to FFO this year but if this year is a scorcher like last year FFO 2013 I may bring my 87 with air. It is a stock car with about 80K miles on it, not real fast, but has air.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
My mechanic...

LarryC said:
Did anybody ever find a solution to the receiver-dryer problem?
Click to expand...

found a unit that had the same ends on it but had some minor differences (length maybe?). I think it was a Volvo unit. Paging Hussein.... but I will ask my mechanic if he recorded the part number.

LarryC said:
My blower motor seems to have conveniently died just this week, so it looks like time to get the box out anyway. Not looking forward to that.
Click to expand...

I saw a recent post where someone cut an access panel to the whole mess behind the windshield wiper fluid tank. I am absolutely going to go that route when the time comes.

Pete
 
I guess I forgot to post my plan.

Plan A:
Fly TonyK out for a weekend vacation in sunny New Mexico, put cot in garage where he will sleep between work sessions, take him to High Noon for fish taco and then put him back on plane home

or
Plan B:
These are the things I need to do up front:

- fix blower motor! and generally restore the heater box
-expansion valve
-new fast-idle capsule
-accumulator drier; need to find one that fits the stock location
-then make up new 134a barrier type hoses (with ends that fit the drier)
-134a type compressor ports
-new compressor
-maybe get my own gauges and vacuum pump. I don’t trust the bozos around here.
 
Vacuum pump

This is the type I use for Air Conditioning.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-On-ACT...ols&hash=item4d0298e318&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_1202

You will need an Air Compressor to operate it.

Fly out to New Mexico, well.... how about you drive the car here where I have all the tools and fittings and gas to do the repair.

Nostaligic has the small receiver dryer that will fit in the stock location.

As for cutting a hole in the car body, I really wouldn't do that. But to get the AC box out, the dash will have to come out as it is a bigger unit than the standard heater box.

Look for an A/C Manifold gauge set on Ebay as well with 134a couplers.

Don't waste your time with an A/C shop as they will want to replace everything on the car to stop call backs. I kept the stock compressor and changed the shaft seal. Not sure if you are going to use R12 or 134a, if you use 134a then you need to purchase the correct oil for it as well.

If you get into trouble or have questions, PM me, I have a long distance plan for Canada and the USA any time of day and can talk you through it.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Larry,

I'd advise staying with R12. It's still readily available. 134 needs a larger condenser for optimum cooling and IMO our condensers are somewhat undersized to begin with. 134 may work fine in areas of the country where it doesn't get all that hot but I suspect than in AZ you'd want every last bit of efficiency you can get out of the system.

Good luck,
 
jvandyke said:
if money is no object (as per wife) I'd suggest buying an X with good working A/C:)
Click to expand...

Nicely done.

It was over a 100 at my house yesterday. Holy Wah! My house AC is barely able to keep up (circa 1957 with less than 6" of fiberglass in the roof and we had to cut down all of our shade trees that used to keep the sun off our roof). I guess I know what my next big expenditure is on the house, besides new roofing...
 
If sticking with R12 is not an option (lots of AC shops don't want to deal with all the EPA stuff if they keep selling R12), another option is one of the R12 substitute products.

I have an older AC system in my VW Vanagon that was originally designed for R12. When rehabilitating it a few years ago, I used a product called Red-Tek. Considering the limitation of the Vanagon system it works pretty well.

Buy it directly from them (http://www.redtek.com/whereus.htm), there are a couple on online resellers that have had bad reports.
 
kmead said:
Nicely done.

It was over a 100 at my house yesterday.
Click to expand...

Opted to take my kid out to fireworks in the Miata since it has air, top down and air blasting I kept thinking the heater was on but that was the "normal" air sneaking in past the AC air!
 
hiram6 said:
I have an older AC system in my VW Vanagon that was originally designed for R12.
Click to expand...

RedTek is a hydrocarbon-based coolant like Duracool, right? A very attractive technology, already widely used in stationary installations such as big industrial coolers... I've been looking longingly at it for one of my cars.

Hydrocarbon coolants ate not legal for automotive use in at least some states; there's a safety concern around pumping flammable liquids under pressure into the passenger compartment of a car.
 
Dryer option

My AC guy suggested changing one of the hose ends that connect to the dryer to female (or is it male, I cannot remember). In that configuration there are lots of dryers that fit. (This would also give me the option of plating the hose fittings while they were apart.)

I have not done this yet. It appears that next spring when I put in my hot engine the AC will not fit. I want to use individual throttle bodies and to have room for them, the alternator will need to be in the lower (AC compressor) position .

Paul Davock
 
Yep, it is similar to DuraCool. One A/C shop I was working with refused to use it, another had no problem with it. It worked great on my Vanagon, and I plan to use it on my Bertone.

The red-tek info page is obviously targeted at the automobile application. The "starter kit" includes the Red-Tek R12 substitute, a can of their "stop leak" product and all the fittings you need. With a set of AC gauges, a way to evacuate and test for pressure, and the red-tek products, conceivably a home DIYer could recharge their system.

It's safe to assume that if a system has been discharged for years, replacement of all o-rings, and the drier, should be completed before any attempt to recharge.
 
I work for a shop and we are pretty strict aout a/c repairs. We wont use Freon hybrids...either r-12 if you really want it, or 134a, and we try to avoid r-12 cause of the sheer cost. Yes we recommend hoses if its an old car, i mean 30 years + Just cause of come backs and its 30 year old rubber and crimps. So thats a standard, drier too is also a given. Problem is if you use any of these freons that arnt straight 134a or r12 its usually a mash up of different things. When we use the revocery equipment, it contaminates our 30lb tanks. Not cool to have 30lbs of contaminated freon (no pun intended) Much of the canned stuff too has sealers in em, which expand rubber seals, which is great except for when it gets into the various solonoids of the recovery equipment. Basically 1 12oz can of say freeze 12, will ruin a $10,000 machine to the point of 2k$ in repair. So thats why many shops want nothing to do with different freons. Due to EPA reg, if there are any issues, they cant be recovered unless your set up to recover contaminated freon, and usually only A/C/radiator places do that

These cars have an expansion valve right? not an orifice tube? I dont see why you cant get the a/c down to respectable temps with 134a. If it was a good working r-12 system (new to the x19 here) no reason it cant be a good working 134 system. Ive gotten many an American car from the 60's-70's down to low 40's and some into the high 30's.

Also as far as the drier goes, there are numerous places you can get universal drivers, and if your getting new hoses made up, they will match the threads on the hoses.

If the expansion valve has the capillary tube you can try relocating the tube to effect the operation of the valve. Biggest trick to a 134 conversion is getting the pressures right, with many American cars with a POA valve for example a 1/4 turn in adjustment bring the pressures right in line, and you get another 10 deg outa the system

My new project is a 74 no a/c, but its gonna get it...so at some point i gotta source, well everything haha. But im prolly gonna source a universal condensor and drier, wiring it myself...biggest thing i guess is the box, control and compressor brackets.

Sorry for the long story, heh


Mar
 
Hmmm. I’m sensing a confusing divergence of opinions.

1. My plan was Duracool with 134a as per TonyKs suggestion. New hoses and expansion valve with whatever drier I can come up with. The whole project is more of a challenge thing with me than an expectation of fully functional AC in the New Mexico heat. The system use to work just fine, but it needs restoration and the ability to be actually serviced. I’m confused.

2. More of a show-stopper is the blower motor which I assume requires extraction of the AC-heater unit.. I have heard in previous discussions that dash removal was desirable for AC-heater unit removal. But the factory manual says that it can be removed (see Factory manual in the Wiki, http://xwebforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=WorkshopManuals#ELECTRICAL). So I am confused
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm also confused...

LarryC said:
1with whatever drier I can come up with.
Click to expand...

I talked to my mechanic and he came up with 2 part numbers:

60601
or
62641

he says these driers bolt to the hoses just fine, but the bracket requires some modifications.

However, I did some searching around for those part numbers and was unable to come up with anything. So I'm not sure that provides any information, sorry.

Pete
 
When you get there

You will find that you are working up side down most of the time and you cannot remove the entire heater box as a unit. Taking the dash out isn't all that much more work and now you will see both sides of the heater box and can work unrestricted. If you choose not to remove the dash take the seats out so that you can lay down flat as you work. Still remember that you are doing the dissassembly in parts and not a complete unit.

As for cooling temps, 2 cans of Dura Cool and top off with 134a currently produces an outlet temperature of 47 degrees F on a 90 degree day. My frost sensor is the limiting item here. I could increase the head pressure with more charge as I have seen the outlet temperature lower than 47 degrees. I have had it as low as 35 degrees F but, frost and restricted flow in the humid climate that I use the A/C in can cause issues.

As for replacing the condenser this car uses a Copper condenser, which by today's standards is unheard of. Copper does not corrode like aluminum with 134a which is a benifit which is why I use Dura Cool with 134a. Moisture in the system is more tolerated with a copper evaporator and condenser.

Currently 47 degree F air in 90 degree heat with the small cabin produces a very dry and comfortable compartment.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Thats not bad, but i dunno if i could like with only 47, is that tested on low fan speed, recirc on windows up? Thats how I do all my testing, as its the most accurate temp of the evaporator, and its the as good as it will get number

Mark
 
Test done

With windows up, not on recirculate and fan on 2nd speed.

When I had a little more charge I had lower temps but the evaporator would freeze up and restrict flow and then the temps would actually rise.

I installed an after market frost switch that I am now playing with to cycle the compressor and melt off the frost. Since the capileri is installed on the gas outlet I have had to reduce the contact of the capilier to allow the compressor to run longer. It was cycling every 3 minutes. Now it rarely comes on and water drips from the pan. This weekend I will increase the charge and see where that gets me. As it stands the cabin is very comfortable in 90 degree temps and humidity to match.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
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