The wife wants me to get the AC going again

Ya know Larry...

Don't kick me for saying this... but you know me.

If I hadta replace the air blower and pull the dash and knowing the condenser is a limiting factor... and needing a compressor... I think I would look to installing a Vintage Air or Hot Rod Air unit that is designed for 134a.

Just saying... and I found a specialist locally that evacuated and tested and filled my system for a hundred bucks. Seemed well worth it considering the purchase of a pump and all. This was on my Vette and I know there would be a lot of fabrication and massaging to get a compact "universal unit" to work... but thinking outside the box even more... one might be mounted up front in the trunk and ducted to the cockpit as well.

When complete, you will have a system that no stock system could hold a candle to. I know my wife thanked me several times for going through the effort to install one in the Vette.

Hope this helps...
 
Papa Tony, I hear you. But it's a "manhood thing"!

I mean, that would be the easy way. Well, actually, having just come off an off-the-frame American iron project, the idea of all that fab work is a tad less appealing. Besides, the failure of the Vintage-Classic-Hot Rod air systems to use outside air circulation on custom installs does not meet my standards. I have to deal with this in the near future on my other project where I intend to use Vintage air. I cannot imagine how even the mini-unit would fit without interference with the fuse panel in some way along with who-knows-what else. Anyway, I just want to meet the challenge and go stock style on this one just to explore the AC restoration phase space just this once.
 
I think we should do a new thread with the info on the vintage air install...and other a/c options, as im learning adding a/c to the early cars isnt easy, as the dealer kits are non existent and the control panels, mounting bracketry what have you are also pretty hard to come by. Id love to see what your up to with a vintage air kit BigAl512. Ive got a 74 thats gonna need a/c at some point...and id love to get some ideas

Mark
 
Yur more of a "man" than I...

HA!

Yeah... I realized that as well that there was no fresh air intake to the Vintage Air type air handlers as I played with the installation on the Vette. In fact the stock manual push/pull "air vents" near the foot-wells were reused as A/C outlets. I kinda miss them but in all my other cars I always turn off the outside air and recirculate only.

At least we agree on one thing... it really does take a lot of effort, time and dollars to restore a stock system.

As far as the fuse box and wiring... If you were to install a vintage air unit the fuse box MIGHT possibly relocate up to where the glove box is... Then again... I might consider a complete "Painless" wiring kit while I was at it. The other consideration as well is to mount the air handler in the front trunk and duct it.

All of this is a bunch of work... Do keep us abreast of how it goes for you.
 
Yes, I am going "straight up" on this one

Vintage Air is fond of using the air vents for hose routing. Same deal on the Bronco which I will have to slug through in a year or so. But I get to do the hot rod thing on too many vehicles. And, frankly, they rarely meet my expectations. The X is just so unmolested, and everything works so well in stock configuration (meaning I don't need to fiddle with it), I am going to keep it as is. The main point is that I get to learn all sorts of things without re-inventing the wheel. Most of all I get to bug Tony K.:shh:

Shortly I will post my stupid list of parts and sources for Tony K to make fun of...
 
True that larry....but not all of us are so lucky to have the option of factory a/c haha...though if it was there, no reason you cant make it just work
 
More Questions

Continuing the learning experience.......In looking into the reproduction of AC hoses I uncovered my complete lack of knowledge about fitting sizes and hose ends for the AC lines on the X.
What sizes are we dealing with here? And is there a metric versus other types as is the case with most threaded fittings? For example, if I want to make up a short line to a new drier, what fitting do I need to have on the evaporator connection.
Finally, what about the AC hoses one can assemble from Aeroquip fittings and AC hose. The hot rodders do it all the time. I find that I am way more comfortable with Aeroquip and Earls hoses than anything comparable. Are we up against metric fitting sizes or something?
As I said, a complete absence of knowledge.
 
Fittings..

The X uses Bead Lock fittings with O rings. If you look at the specs. for a metric fitting #6 and a 1/4" imperial fitting you will find that they are pretty much the same. So The X uses # 6, # 8, & #10 fittings with a short section under the carpet of #12 hose on the passanger side. The hose will say #6 but will also say 1/4". The barrier hose used with 134a has a nylon inner liner that if over crimped will split and leak. I recommend using the correct fittings for this type of hose. I have reused all of the fittings on my 87 car and just replaced the hose.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
O.K., so it sounds like I can reuse my fittings

as long as I do not use barrier type hose. But if I use 134a, I need new fittings. One of the problems is that there is a complete lack of discussion out there (internet) on the array of fittings, unlike most plumbing tech. I would have guessed that the crimp is part of the fitting, so new fitting would be required. But I guess I am assuming incorrectly. Wow. I don't know. It's starting to sound like one of those vooddoo topics where the learning curve is steep. I am starting to think that I might leave my hoses alone.
 
You can buy the crimping tools and DIY...its the fitting and a sleeve...pretty straight forward stuff, biggest trick is to be sure the fittings are the correct direction before crimping. Also call around...there are places that will rebuild p/s and a/c hoses for very reasonable costs, as there are many high pressure hoses that are unavailable. Its as simple as dropping off all your old rubber hoses and the will remove and reuse the fittings, or replace with new fittings, and use fancy new hoses in between. Updating an older system thats down, id defiantly look into doing it, but if all your lines look good itll be fine for a while. Ive had older r-12 systems not leak out for a few years because of older hoses. Just remember, if you crack the system open again in a few years to do the hoses...replace the drier again

Mark
 
Larry

You want to USE Barrier Hose for 134a.

I have copied links here the last link gives the specs. for hose and fittings.

You will see that the imperial and metric are similar.

These are the suppliers I use. I purchased a manual crimper to remake my hoses from the stock used X fittings.

http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/14-x-20-superflow-r-134a-condenser-28.php

http://www.acsource.com/hosefittingsbeadlock.aspx

http://tswf.com/koolkarzonline/hosekits.cfm



http://www.highgateair.com.au/images/stories/products-pdf/Hose-and-Fittings.pdf



TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
TonyK, Thanks.

I have gathered up most of the articles over the past few years. This helps me feel confident that I have what I need. This week I believe I attained a "critical mass" of knowledge and it all became clear.:sun: I am thinking that there are three stages of possible AC restoration. The first being a simple conversion/recharge. The third being a replacement of everything. Somewhere in between is a good start for what I have to work with: Many parts that have short service lives and that are easy to replace get replaced (drier, expansion valve, O-rings) and upgrades happen (134a adapters) and maybe compressor). Those would be stage two. I think I am going to start in stage 2 territory. What with global warming, I think that acquiring the tools and learning how to service AC is maybe a good idea. So I might go for a vacuum pump and gauges so I can do my own service.
So, except for the drier hose, I think I will start by replacing O-rings, but otherwise leaving the hoses alone, just to get the system proved out. Down the road I look forward to replacing hoses. So I think I am about ready to start. As a toe dip, I rebuilt the idle step-up vacuum capsule this weekend. Works well. Now on to the drier issue. I think I will start with the Jag drier and see where that leads.
 
A friend up here used the engine of his Fiat to draw a vacuum on the A/C system in his car. I thought it was clever. I think he just hooked it up to the FPR line and had a gauge inline. Ran the engine until the vacuum was about -30psi and capped it.
 
Continuing with this thread

I am still gathering parts before I get proactivated and actually get down to business. I am still running the original 79 AC compressor, so to eliminate bottlenecks in the workflow, it seems like a new compressor would be a useful idea.
The question is: What compressors were used over the years? I recall someone mentioning that the early compressors were Sanden 507 while later models got the upgraded 508. There seems to be another one that is labeled as an upgrade to the 508, the SD5H14. Same dimensions, two groove pulley as the original. Would the 5H14 be a good choice? Or am I looking for a 508? What am I missing? Surely something.

http://www.techchoiceparts.com/Showitem/100736-Sanden SD5H14 AC Compressor.aspx
 
Opinion

Larry since my compressor was working and I was looking for a leak I purchased shaft seals, removed the compressor and changed the seals.

What you are facing is an unknown, so in my opinion, remove the compressor and change out with the 508 or the upgraded compressor.

Don't waste your time on shaft seals as the compressor may turn out to be a dud and you will have to change it and start all over again.

Removing and installing the compressor is not a simple job, there are lots of little brackets, rusty bolts and restricted access. Last year on the way back from FFO 2011 I lost the bearing in the compressor on my Dodge Truck. The clutch burned up in the process and I could not get a new clutch. I purchased a new compressor and was in the process of changing the clutch from the new compressor to the old compressor only to find out one had a spline shaft and the other had a key way. I drove home 2 days in 90 degree heat windows down by way of the interstate to Canada and once home I changed the compressor and recharged the system in an hour and a half. It will take you longer than that to change the compressor on the X, be prepared. You may have to heat and bend a wrench or two to get at some of the fittings as well.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Condenser option?

Rather than a larger condenser, could you put yet another condenser in front of the current one and pipe them in series? Not sure how it would affect engine cooling.
 
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