Your welcome...

And even at the new price I think they're a good value. I've designed and built headlight relay kits for Spiders and the cost of materials alone is substantial.

And now both my X and my Vanagon have the kit installed, as a preventive measure in my case. I've had plenty of "click but no crank" situations in the past on other vehicles.

This creates a work around that protects the ignition switch from yet another heavy load, and adds safety to the solenoid switching circuit via the fuse.
 
Hey Jay... let me add my thanks...

I won't be ordering as I'm "special" and don't need one... but I too realize the cost of the components if one was to build ONE for themselves and applaud you for keeping the costs reasonable and taking car of those less fortunate than ME!

HA!

Seriously... thanks again!
 
Got mine.

Got my relay kit this week. Can't wait to get out and fit it. The quality looks fantastic - it far surpasses anything I would have produced had I tried to do it myself.
Great stuff.
 
I put a relay on last night, didn't use this kit because I didn't want to wait for it but I'd recommend it over building your own -like I did. It didn't seem to effect my "click but no crank" issue at all (solenoid itself I guess, not just a "voltage to it" issue). At least the ignition switch is being saved some amps.....I guess. After installing mine, I wonder how you'd run the wires through the firewall with the connections already on the wires, I ran mine first and even that was tough to shove through the existing harness grommet. I ended up pulling the grommet off the firewall, shoving the wires through the "jacket". Quite tight with just bare wires. Could take another route of course.
 
Finally

6 months late, I finally got round to fitting my relay last night. Spent a good 45 minutes cursing and shouting, trying to get the cables through from the spare wheel well into the engine bay, but then once I found the knack I did it in 2 minutes flat ! Typical !

Worked mostly from underneath the car to attach the cables to the starter connections. Then, first turn of the key (on a pretty old and run down battery) - turned the engine over no problem. And more importantly .. no click ! Solved :)
 
Nice to hear it works for you...

I've had no problems with my installation as yet, so it seems to work as intended. Mind, I was not having problems prior to install and so see my use of the relay kit as prophylactic.
 
Starter relay

Greg:
I can also use one (maybe two) of the starter relays. Just let me know who and how much to PayPal the money to.

Thanks,
Allen
 
Hi Allen

Contact the seller directly, the info is in this thread somewhere. Very friendly guy and propmt shipping too.
 
Looks like a great addition to the mod pantheon

I must have missed this thread back in January, because I only noticed it today when Greg posted.

I sent Jay an email asking for a PayPal money request to order and pay for his starte relay kit, and got a response in less than an hour. I agree with Greg's earlier post, this looks like a great value.

When done my '86 will have the three "must-have" relay mods (BB's no-cut H/L mod, Leszig's [excuse the bad spelling!] wiper motor relay mod, and this starter relay mod). And my own special interpretation of the "brown wire mod" that will bring the house down:devil::devil:
 
Maybe a minor adjustment...

I bought and installed one from Jay, and was impressed with the workmanship, and the seriously nice guy that built it. Only issue I ran into (since I had to pull the starter 4-5 times) was the wire that goes to the starter could be a little longer, allowing the starter to drop for removal of all wires. Sharp piece of work all around though, and the price is better than I could build it. :clap:
 
Hmmm, I didn't find that a problem.........!

....the wire that goes to the starter could be a little longer..
.......but I guess it depends on where you locate the relay. I positioned the relay in my 1300 X in the spare wheel cavity, fairly high up and close to the fuel tank (guided somewhat by Greg Smith's beaut pics). But I DID cut a 15mm hole (circular drill bit) thru the firewall that gave the wires good access to the starter motor. I threaded each relay wire thru the hole seperately (because the plastic connectors were a bit large to push the wires thru together) and easily hooked 'em up to the appropriate terminals. Then slipped a rubber grommet around the newly-drilled hole, taped the relay wires together, and bingo - job done!! :clap:
The starter cranks up first turn of the key now, even if the battery is a bit low on charge.
An excellent modification to anyone's X1/9!!!

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
Good day
Well, I finally finished the starter relay mod. Working :)
OK, I have a dumb question! When I add relays for say the wipers or starter or what ever, do the primary (original) relays stay, and what is their purpose? Just changing something sometimes isn't as important as what you didn't change and why. Will post pictures when everything is wrapped up

Stoney
 
OK, I have a dumb question! When I add relays for say the wipers or starter or what ever, do the primary (original) relays stay, and what is their purpose?

The relays you have so far installed don't replace any relays that were in the car.

These cars run few relays as most of the electricity to elements that use it runs through a switch, for example the ignition switch provides power to a set of circuits that provide power to a switch and then to the element, such as the wiper motor. The primary circuits on all Xs that use a relay are: headlight lifting and lowering; rear defrost; horn; cooling fan; some interlocks such as key in the ignition chime or in the distant past an ignition interlock with the seat belts. As more features were added they added more relays such as the double relay for the injection system, interior lighting relay to provide time delay and on the last few years a high beam relay. There are likely a few more that my addled mind isn't recalling at the moment but you get the gist.

The point of a relay is to take the load off the contacts in switches due to the high amperage load they are switching, which can melt the switch as they age due to increases in resistance from arcing, dirt and corrosion. Relays are also used to automate actions such as the headlight motor's motion when you turn on the lights. Relays can also be used to provide more power to an element than a switch can offer, or at least an old somewhat corroded one :).

Due to the age and relative lack of certain quality replacement parts, many will put in relays to save the switches from destruction due to heat from the above mentioned reasons. Good candidates are the ignition: switch loads for powering sub circuits and the starter; headlight switch, due to the high amperage going through them naturally during use; and then things like wipers. Doing this can provide longer life to the switch and in many cases substantially better performance of the element being powered as there is less power loss and the relay can be mounted close to the element using the power. Relays are pretty damn cheap and if one fails it is cheap and easy to replace.

So a lot of positives, there is also a notable negative: complexity. You have changed the systems so now the wiring diagram is no longer accurate. You have added more parts and connections, all of which can fail and make trouble shooting that much more difficult. You are adding weight in wiring, relays and mounting brackets/boxes, subtle I know but things like this do add up.

Personally I am a strong advocate of adding relays. If you do your work well with quality connectors, crimping tools, secondary insulation, carefully locate the new parts and install them well they will make the car more reliable. Additionally, changing the system so that the things you add can be removed and the car returned to its orignal state if desired in the future. You don't want to cut out perfectly good parts of the wiring system as it is quite high quality, actually does work well and you don't want to be the PO. As in: "What the F--- was the G-- d---- Previous Owner thinking when he did that to this otherwise fine car!"

However. If you don't follow basic rules you could burn the car down which is terribly bad form, so any line coming from the battery needs to have a fuse in it, preferably before the relay and preferably close to the battery so any vagrant voltage due to errors, damage or what have you won't start a fire.

So relay away...
 
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Karl
Thanks for a very good explanation. Sometimes just doing a project isn't as important as knowing why we did it and what really changed when we did it. With all the wiring changes I have made so far, there is a page in the electric schematics book showing what I did and hat I added. Also all relays are identified for the future owner if I ever sell it. Better than trying to remember everything.

Thanks again for info

Stoney
 
Hard start VW wiring kit long term Budgetzagato result?

A few years have passed since the group discussed this VW based solution. The vendor is still making them available, would you advise yeah or nay for 1986 Xes that don't otherwise have an alternative in place and are otherwise factory electrical?

I plan to do the simple brown wire, 4 guage battery cable and transmission / engine ground soon and thought this pre-built kit could serve as a teaching tool before committing to home grown head light or wiper mod.
 
I would recommend it. It takes a substantial load off the ignition switch and can ensure the solenoid always receives the voltage it needs.

There are few things more frustrating than hearing the click of the solenoid behind you and no action for the first few tries.

Vicks also sells a wiper relay kit, I have not seen one in person it should be good, if not return it.
 
I installed one of these kits into my '82 X, while trying to track down a hard start problem, as described in another thread. Even though it didn't fix the problem, I'm still glad to have it in place, to help baby the ignition switch. I bought two of the kits direct from Jay, and the build quality is top notch! The craftsmanship, and quality parts, definitely remind me of the superb headlight relay kits I bought from Bob Brown in 2011. You can see from Bob's comments from the early days of this thread that he recognized the work of a fellow electronics perfectionist, and the end results are a pleasure to buy, install, and use.
 
Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.

Also, Karl, I appreciate your relay description from 2017 above.
It took me a bit to realize the "hard start" solution was not trying to get power TO the starter motor, but was actually taking some small amount away in order to send it to the solenoid. Assuming I finally get it, the solenoid gets more power and the ignition switch gets relief.

I don't actually have the hard start issues, but my X has symptoms that scream pending ignition switch failure.
Before I work on the switch I want to put in the various mods to lessen the stress.

I've ordered the VW guy's hard start solution, and the Vicks wiper solution (this forum rocks!).
Once the wiper mod is implemented I'll give some feedback on it.

I suppose I should start a new thread for my car symptoms and include the wiper mod commentary at that time (?).
It will probably be a few weeks before the weather cooperates and I gather the various parts.

In the mean time, is there some meaningful measurements I could take for the "before mods" and "after mods" performance?
For example, should I measure volts at the ignition switch power in, or power out (I have a digital volt & ohm meter)?
If there is no good measure that's fine, it was just personal curiosity that I would share with the group.
 
It is difficult to measure amperage with typical tools as it would blow them out.

Things you might consider doing to document changes in performance: Take a before and after pic of the low beams if you put in a low beam relay. Document the speed of the wipers on low and high before and after. An image of the voltmeter before and after any of the mods.

Yes the hard start relay takes some of the electrons from that cable that also serves the starter but it is the same aggregate number of electrons that the system would be using to make the solenoid work. Rest assured that the gauge of the wire is such that you can afford a bit of leakage from that source...

In general taking load off the (ignition or any other) switch and ensuring your brown wires have good connections to the fuse box will improve performance, reliability and safety of the system.
 
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