Please Advise X19 1300 build

NewNeil

Daily Driver
I'm new to the forum, but have had an X for about 5 years now. It ran for a while, but it is now taken apart due to it complete lack of power. I am at the point of needing machine work done to the head and possibly the block, but I'm not sure how much to take off. It doesn't look like any work has been done it before and measurements suggest it is still a stock 1300 motor. Any advise is welcome and would greatly appreciate any insight offered.
Also any one know if a great machine Shop in Minnesota?
 
Sounds like you are on the verge of a fully engine rebuild with some go-fast goodies. Before this gets carried away I would define your budget and wants/needs. This can quickly get out of hand. It happens way too easily. Trust me I went through that 3 years ago.
 
Sounds like you are on the verge of a fully engine rebuild with some go-fast goodies. Before this gets carried away I would define your budget and wants/needs. This can quickly get out of hand. It happens way too easily. Trust me I went through that 3 years ago.

It is also a good idea to take an honest look at your personal skill set. I have an unfinished 78X sitting in the corner because I got so frustrated with the project. I let my desires outreach my skill set. :(
 
Welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of good information available here.

And as noted above, it would be best to tell us what you can of your engine project. Is this a full rebuild? What is the state of the engine?

A good machine shop can check the head and estimate how much it might need to be milled to return it to spec. If the head is warped, a typical mill is about .030". If its not, it would benefit from a simple clean-up skim at .010".
 
Thanks for the welcome. I took it apart with the intention of fully rebuilding it. I do have the top end completely torn down. Yet to see what is at the bottom end. So far I am not seeing any deep gouges fingers crossed it stays that way. Budget for the build is about $2000 give or take a couple hundred. I've been looking at the Vick Auto rebuild kit with the 86.4mm piston. This is a learning experience so whatever happens happens. I did notice some oil and carbon build up on number 4 and 3 exhaust figured it might be the stem seals. Let me know what you see.
 

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Before you order any pistons, you need to strip the block & have the bores checked by a machine shop for out of round. Until you know whether a rebore or hone is needed, you can't make any decisions regaridng piston sizing.
 
Interesting to see the tool marks above the valve seats on the intake ports. I have seen those on heads that I know had never been off so in some cases that was done at the factory. However, these don't look like factory. Most likely somebody did replaced those seats at some point.


Agree with Hussein about checking the bores before rebore and hone. Those shallow valve relief pistons are likely original and hard to find. I would check the bores and mic the pistons. And if within service limits, fit new rings and reuse them.

The head will likely need to be planed and if so have the valves/seats reground. They seats look to need it.

I should note that the lower end of the 1300s is VERY robust. If the engine had reasonable maintenance the crank and rods are likely well within spec. A fresh set of bearings is likely all it will need. Be sure to use a dial indicator to check the crank's thrust. That's usually the first thing that shows up on those cranks.
 
Might have a set of good used pistons that needs a good home. I'll check on them first opportunity and post what is found. Need to get stuff like that out of here.

Bernice
 
Small brow (valve relief cut outs) pistons were used on early 1300 exxe. These were the famous valve interference engines if the timing belt was not properly maintained (changed about 30,000 miles or so) the timing belt could fail causing bent valves and more.. Think there is a about a 6cc difference between these small brow pistons and the later big brow reduced interference engines. The big brow pistons will lower compression when used compared to small brow pistons.

Regardless, don't order pistons and related engine parts until the engine is apart and measured for wear. As Steve had already mentioned, the bottom ends of these Lampredi engines are REALLY robust.

Does not appear to have any head gasket problems, a 0.010" to 0.020" shave should clean up the head seating surface good. Valve seats look too good to be OEM, but possible.


Bernice
 
Lots of info, I will tear down the rest and get the measurements done. I'm not expecting anything out of the ordinary, the car has about 70k miles on it with 2 other owners before me. Possiblity that it has been messed with before I got it. I will keep you apprised of my findings.
 
Bottom end is apart finally!! The rod bearings do not look that great. 1 and 4 are the worst on wear and both have grooves on them. However, the rod journals are great. They have no signs of abnormal wear. I did notice some odd marks on the piston skirts not sure what they would be from. The pistons also measure a little under 86mm and I'm curious at to why that would be. Is it possible that they expand to 86mm when hot, or am I measuring incorrectly?
Measured at 85.57mm
 

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Budget for the build is about $2000 give or take a couple hundred.
For that you might consider going with a 1500 block. The 15% increase in displacement pretty much swamps all the other easy things you can do with a 1300, and it's not hard to find a 1500 that's healthy enough that run without reboring and finding new pistons. Euro 1500 heads without the milled recess are also much easier to find than Euro 1300 heads.
 
What Eric said. Early (79-80?) head with a 10 bolt pattern, and you can use that 1300 head. Winner winner chicken dinner...
 
I think your pistons look pretty new. If the engine has not been rebuilt I think you have a VERY low mileage engine. That rod bearing looks bad, may indicate an oiling problem at some point. They are not terrible, but I don't think it's normal wear. It's not uncommon for the crank to be good, even with some bearing wear, but you won't know until you look at the mains.
Check your ring gaps, and measure your piston to bore clearance. Check the piston diameter on the thrust surfaces, not at the pin bores. I would be very surprised if you couldn't reuse your pistons. If you didn't do a leak down test before you took the engine apart you missed an opportunity to pinpoint your low power condition. So far, from the pics you've posted, it doesn't look like you have any major mechanical issues, and certainly not excessive wear.
You can do a rudimentary check of the condition of your valves/seats on the bench. Just reinstall the valves (don't bother to install new guide seals yet) and see if they leak when you pour alcohol in the ports. If they do leak you'll know you need a valve job. If they don't, you should probably get them cleaned up anyway, but in any event they aren't real bad.
 
For that you might consider going with a 1500 block. The 15% increase in displacement pretty much swamps all the other easy things you can do with a 1300, and it's not hard to find a 1500 that's healthy enough that run without reboring and finding new pistons.
I did think about this prior to starting the build, but thought it was going to be more of a hustle to try and find such a motor. However, If anyone has one they are willing to part with for cheep. I will gladly take it.
 
Update

I have the cylinder head back. Cleaned up well took about .007" off and cleaned the seats. Block is still at the machine shop and I haven't heard back yet. Fingers crossed it's ok!!
That rod bearing looks bad, may indicate an oiling problem at some point. They are not terrible, but I don't think it's normal wear. It's not uncommon for the crank to be good, even with some bearing wear, but you won't know until you look at the mains.
The mains were great. No visible wear on the bearings. I do think there was oil starvation at one point. I did find rtv in the oil pump, and whoever seal it used a ton of rtv. So It is possible I got lucky and didn't get serious damage.
IMG_20200706_163426.jpg
 
Update

I have the cylinder head back. Cleaned up well took about .007" off and cleaned the seats. Block is still at the machine shop and I haven't heard back yet. Fingers crossed it's ok!!

The mains were great. No visible wear on the bearings. I do think there was oil starvation at one point. I did find rtv in the oil pump, and whoever seal it used a ton of rtv. So It is possible I got lucky and didn't get serious damage. View attachment 34098
Update

I have the cylinder head back. Cleaned up well took about .007" off and cleaned the seats. Block is still at the machine shop and I haven't heard back yet. Fingers crossed it's ok!!

The mains were great. No visible wear on the bearings. I do think there was oil starvation at one point. I did find rtv in the oil pump, and whoever seal it used a ton of rtv. So It is possible I got lucky and didn't get serious damage. View attachment 34098
We're you able to cut the oil filter open?
 
I recommend popping that oil pump pickup screen off.
There was all kinds of nastiness on the inside of mine.
 
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