Coolant Tube Issue

Over the years, I have had both issues. Installing the wrong thermostat gasket causing coolant to go where it shouldn't (back then I didn't know about the different gaskets). Also had coolant leak at the waterpump/pipe joint when I didn't get the gasket right and the gasket had slipped down on the engine side and the bolt hole fell below the bolt opening.

Pull the thermostat and check that you have the right gasket for starters. Otherwise we are all whistling in the dark.

Wouldn't hurt to do a compression test.
 
fiatfactory said:
It's not a dead end, it runs thru to the exhaust ports on 1 and 4... the holes in the exhaust port may be a bit blocked up with carbon, but put a few pounds of positive pressure behind them and water is going to leak past....

and by "block the port" what do you mean? a nub of silicone isn't going to do the job.

Once again pressure from the cooling system will allow water to get past or move a silicone plug,

the gasket to the left will leave the hole partially exposed to the cooling system, replace the gasket with the right one and try again.

SteveC
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Thank you. Matt recommended tapping it and screwing in a plug, but a I'll give you suggestion a go. Cheers.
 
Elanplus2 said:
I'm pretty sure the one on the left is what was supplied from Midwest.

Additionally, Matt there advised that I fill/seal that port - which I did. Before doing so however, my head rebuilder and I looked that port over closely and found it to be a dead end anyhow.
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Are you sure you have a 1500 thermostat housing? A1300 unit will not block the hole. I sealed that port by tapping it and putting a set screw in with pipe thread cement. Also works well for blocking the two coolant ports going to the intake manifold.
 
MANY MANY thanks to Steve and those others who directed me to the thermostat housing gasket. Indeed, the one I installed was the one without the hole. I will be bringing this up to the folks at Midwest Bayless because their gasket kit is a jumble of products and what looked to be the correct gasket was actually hidden beneath a bunch of other stuff. Then when I actually tried to use that gasket it did not align correctly. So I needed to use both templates to go out and buy gasket making material and custom make a gasket to fit the housing. That seems to have fixed just about everything. I have given the car a third sacrificial oil change, and started it up. It now smokes very little, and I hope and believe that that smoke coming out is the remnant coolant in the system. I'll let this run a few more times drain a few more times before I do another oil change and hopefully that will completely address that situation. Sadly, in the process one of my thermostat housing bolt holes has now stripped, so I'm going to have to figure out a way to get that third bolt cinched down to keep the housing from leaking under pressure. Again, many many many thanks to all of you for your help and support! Let's keep these hobbies alive.
 
Elanplus2 said:
MANY MANY thanks to Steve and those others who directed me to the thermostat housing gasket. Indeed, the one I installed was the one without the hole. I will be bringing this up to the folks at Midwest Bayless because their gasket kit is a jumble of products and what looked to be the correct gasket was actually hidden beneath a bunch of other stuff. Then when I actually tried to use that gasket it did not align correctly. So I needed to use both templates to go out and buy gasket making material and custom make a gasket to fit the housing. That seems to have fixed just about everything. I have given the car a third sacrificial oil change, and started it up. It now smokes very little, and I hope and believe that that smoke coming out is the remnant coolant in the system. I'll let this run a few more times drain a few more times before I do another oil change and hopefully that will completely address that situation. Sadly, in the process one of my thermostat housing bolt holes has now stripped, so I'm going to have to figure out a way to get that third bolt cinched down to keep the housing from leaking under pressure. Again, many many many thanks to all of you for your help and support! Let's keep these hobbies alive.
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I had a thermostat housing bolt that was stripped. I used an M8x1.25 Heli-coil. It requires a 21/64" drill to install. I used a spare housing as a drill guide to insure the hole was straight - a 21/64" bit fits the housing hole snug enough to keep it in line.
 
I'm not sure it has come up, what year is your motor? Actually, what year is the cylinder head?
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Matt did recommend that you plug that hole in the head, right? ;)
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He did suggest it, but I don't have that tooling. Besides, here are the two gaskets supplied in their kit... One has no hole, the other has the hole, but when bolted on leaves a gaping space at the bottom (ask me how I found that out)...
 

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Elanplus2 said:
He did suggest it, but I don't have that tooling. Besides, here are the two gaskets supplied in their kit... One has no hole, the other has the hole, but when bolted on leaves a gaping space at the bottom (ask me how I found that out)...
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The only tooling you need is an M8x1.25 tap and an M8x1.25 set screw along with some pipe thread sealant.
 
dllubin said:
A 78 head would not have that hole as they used an external manifold for that function. Did you replace the head? What kind of engine is it?
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This is a 1300. I know very little about the car as it was an estate sale. All I know is the car had some engine work done in '87 with 78K showing on the work receipt. A year later the car was reportedly parked with 82K showing and reportedly not started in the years between them and this past fall. When it was started it showed the smoking consistent with a head issue.

My head tech thoroughly examined it to find it has definitely been worked on in the past, and was warped on both flats. Block and gasket showed the most minor of bypass between 4&3. Our Guess is that the work done in 87 included a head gasket that never got retorqued, and thus warped the head.

Truly, beyond that I know very little about this car. I have replaced both master cylinders, the slave cylinder, all of the brake calipers and lines, all of the coolant lines, the alternator, the exhaust header... My next big job beyond addressing the thermostat housing bolt is to get all of the air out of the damn clutch system.
 
Seems like you have a 1300 with a 1500 head. I wonder what compression ratio that results in with a stock 1500 head? Or perhaps the head is not stock. When the head was off, did it show any signs of work on the ports/valves or shaving the head to increase compression ratio?
 
dllubin said:
Seems like you have a 1300 with a 1500 head. I wonder what compression ratio that results in with a stock 1500 head? Or perhaps the head is not stock. When the head was off, did it show any signs of work on the ports/valves or shaving the head to increase compression ratio?
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No clue, other than the technician said it was obvious the head had been worked on before. I did need to replace all of the exhaust valves, and I ordered them appropriate for a 1300... Are they the same on a 1500?? Three of my valve spacings were such that I couldn't get a thin enough shim to redo them, so we ended up tipping those valves, and a couple of the other valves he ended up shaving the ceiling faces to achieve the desired gaps there. Again, I have no idea if this indicates a different head or not.

As I said, the head tech needed to deck both the upper and lower planes of the head as it was so warped. When I was in the process of putting the car back together and checking timing marks, etc... I was worried momentarily that I was bumping up against valves because it was SO hard to turn the engine over with the drive wheel. I came to the conclusion that the compression is now just quite strong. That being said, the car turns over easily with the starter and starts instantly with the new 34 carb that's on it and I hear no odd mechanical noises. 🤞🤞
 
The exhaust valves on a 1500 are 33.1mm in diameter while for a 1300 they are 31mm. Should be interesting to see how well they seat.

The engine should be relatively easy to turn with the plugs out. The only real force to overcome is the valve springs via the camshaft. I don't know how much clearance a 1500 head would have on a 1300 as the 1500 pistons have large recesses for the valves and the 1300 pistons do not.

Sounds like you have it running OK so hopefully no colisions betwen valves and pistons.
 
dllubin said:
The exhaust valves on a 1500 are 33.1mm in diameter while for a 1300 they are 31mm. Should be interesting to see how well they seat.

The engine should be relatively easy to turn with the plugs out. The only real force to overcome is the valve springs via the camshaft. I don't know how much clearance a 1500 head would have on a 1300 as the 1500 pistons have large recesses for the valves and the 1300 pistons do not.

Sounds like you have it running OK so hopefully no colisions betwen valves and pistons.
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Thanks. So far, so good! I'm still not clear what is calling this out as a 1500 head though? Timing is definitely set as you would a 1300...
 
Elanplus2 said:
Thanks for all of this, Steve.

The exhaust is not only VERY smokey, but quite wet. Let run long enough I practically have a sooty pool under the tip. The temp gauge has only approached 3/4 up the dial.

I'm 99% sure the t-stat gasket I used covers that port. It's the gasket that comes in the Midwest Head Kit. I used gasket sealer.

My head needed to be decked on both faces. I used the extra thick cam carrier gasket, but the supplied head gasket in the above mentioned kit. I did a three stage torque procedure. I'm on my second sacrificial oil change to see if I was just burning through residual coolant. I've left it sit pressurized overnight and plan to drain the oil today and see if/good much coolant escapes first.

This whole ordeal is frustrating enough, but the insult is that the engine otherwise runs quite well.

Regards
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If your head is decked, it is important that you shorten the head bolts by the same or more that was shaved off the head. If the head bolts are too long they will bottom out in the holes of the block before the head is clamped sufficiently to the block. Remember to run a bottom tap in the head bolt holes in the block to clean up the threads.
 
There might be some confusion in this discussion; there is a passage (hole, port, opening) in the head and the thermostat cover on early 1500's. However the thermostat cover might have been swapped at some point. If that's the case you could have a hole in the head but not the cover, or in the cover but not the head. From what I'm reading, it may be a 1300 head without the internal port/passage behind the thermostat housing. Do you recall seeing the actual opening in the head (not the thermostat housing)? It will look like this:
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This is the hole we are talking about plugging, not on the thermostat housing cover.

The matching cover with a hole looks like this (ignore the label on the pic):
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The cover without the hole looks like this:
001.JPG


You can see by looking at the two covers why there are two very different gaskets.

Therefore we need to establish if it is a 1300 or 1500 head and which T-stat cover.
 
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Mine definitely has the hole in the head. I'm not certain about the cover any longer.

Importantly, (selfishly) my set up now SEEMS to be working. If there are stampings somewhere on the for me to check its actual origin, I'd be glad to know where to look.
 
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