Coolant Tube Issue

Elanplus2

Elanplus2

True Classic
The hits keep coming. I figured that now that I know the engine runs (still hoping to figure out the racing idle issue) that I was safe to start introducing fresh coolant. Well... 1.5 gallons in and I start getting a puddle underneath. Turns out it's coming from the coolant Tube where it mates to the water pump. I even put gasket maker on the new gasket! Has anyone dealt with this? Is it as easy as doubling up the gasket? I'm only slightly panicked now that the manifolds are both securely attached. Ugh!
 
Possibly a warped flange on the coolant tube? Or the face of the mounting surface on the water pump housing isn't flat? Don't assume anything is as it should be on a old Fiat.
 
If it is a 1300 style pump with the heater return fitting, it would be worth checking to see if that one is watertight since it is right next to the big return tube.
 
Try to verify it's that joint that's leaking. These tubes can and do get rusty on the inside and eventually rust all the way through. If you have a rusted through pin hole near that joint you might be thinking it's the joint leaking.
 
dllubin said:
If it is a 1300 style pump with the heater return fitting, it would be worth checking to see if that one is watertight since it is right next to the big return tube.
Click to expand...
It's strong flowing leak making me doubt a pin-hole. This leak is happening without the engine running, so no other pressure being applied.
 
I had a similar leak & thought the tube rotted thru. Ordered a new waterpump since I was going to be in there anyways. Started by removing the waterpump, then the tube. It was then I discovered the hose clamp on the thermostat side had broken....
 
JKIDD said:
I had a similar leak & thought the tube rotted thru. Ordered a new waterpump since I was going to be in there anyways. Started by removing the waterpump, then the tube. It was then I discovered the hose clamp on the thermostat side had broken....
Click to expand...
I'll certainly be looking at everything, but the elbow house coming off the offending pipe to the t-stat housing as well as the clamps are all new.
 
I usually have small leaks on initial filling of cooling system on my rebuilt motors. It's always a clamp that was not tight enough. I assume in your situation there is no clamps as this is a flange mount from the pipe to the pump...very typical leaking joint on a 124 motor as the flange on the pipe is so thin and distorts easily. The X pipe is bigger and has a thicker flange but check for distortion anyway with a straight edge.
 
Elanplus2 said:
The hits keep coming. I figured that now that I know the engine runs (still hoping to figure out the racing idle issue) that I was safe to start introducing fresh coolant. Well... 1.5 gallons in and I start getting a puddle underneath. Turns out it's coming from the coolant Tube where it mates to the water pump. I even put gasket maker on the new gasket! Has anyone dealt with this? Is it as easy as doubling up the gasket? I'm only slightly panicked now that the manifolds are both securely attached. Ugh!
Click to expand...
UPDATE: I can't believe this, but the gasket had slipped off the upper mounting bolt. :mad: It's not longer leaking now, but the head work I did all seems for naught as the car is blowing tremendous smoke and milk shaking the oil... Pray for me.
 
Elanplus2 said:
but the head work I did all seems for naught as the car is blowing tremendous smoke and milk shaking the oil...
Click to expand...

The SOHC doesn't generally mix oil and water due to a gasket issue, not unless there is a heap pouring into a cylinder and getting past the rings as the oil up and drain holes and the water jacket holes at the cylinder head to block interface are some distance from each other

Most common point of ingress of coolant into the oiling system is from the alloy screw in plugs found under the cambox, these block off the casting risers and are known to corrode from the underside... sending coolant into the oil system. The plugs are the same size as a Fiat sump plug.

They, can look good from the top, but a poke with the tip of a screwdriver will break thru...

SteveC
 
fiatfactory said:
The SOHC doesn't generally mix oil and water due to a gasket issue, not unless there is a heap pouring into a cylinder and getting past the rings as the oil up and drain holes and the water jacket holes at the cylinder head to block interface are some distance from each other

Most common point of ingress of coolant into the oiling system is from the alloy screw in plugs found under the cambox, these block off the casting risers and are known to corrode from the underside... sending coolant into the oil system. The plugs are the same size as a Fiat sump plug.

They, can look good from the top, but a poke with the tip of a screwdriver will break thru...

SteveC
Click to expand...
Thank you, but I'm having trouble picturing what/where you're taking about. Also, what's the fix in this situation? Cheers
 
remove the cambox and replace the plugs, (arrowed) if they are corroded.

cambox plugs.JPG


SteveC
 
Give them a poke with a pointy object, if they are corroded then the pointy object will pierce the alloy plug at the base of the hex,

they can "look" great, until you give them a prod, it might currently be a tiny pin hole.

If you've got water in the oil, it's either that or you've not torqued the head down correctly somehow.

i.e. the head bolts are bottoming / head dowels are keeping the head from seating... and the front (plug side) of the block isn't seating properly, and you have coolant pouring down the oil returns to the sump.

either way it's probably time to remove the head again (or at least the cambox) and have a look.

SteveC
 
I guess another possibility would be the use of the incorrect thermostst housing gasket.... but that would have manifested itself differently, but thats about the only other way large quantities of coolant get into the engine, though it usually spits it out the exhaust or fills a cylinder up.

See the arrow in your picture? See the hole it points to? That is an air injection port, if you use the wrong gasket on the thermo housing it doesn't properly cover the hole and you get coolant running in there.... I guess that's easier to check than the core plugs under the cambox

316255589_10160988127301833_6257401348173337909_n.jpg

SteveC
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all of this, Steve.

The exhaust is not only VERY smokey, but quite wet. Let run long enough I practically have a sooty pool under the tip. The temp gauge has only approached 3/4 up the dial.

I'm 99% sure the t-stat gasket I used covers that port. It's the gasket that comes in the Midwest Head Kit. I used gasket sealer.

My head needed to be decked on both faces. I used the extra thick cam carrier gasket, but the supplied head gasket in the above mentioned kit. I did a three stage torque procedure. I'm on my second sacrificial oil change to see if I was just burning through residual coolant. I've left it sit pressurized overnight and plan to drain the oil today and see if/good much coolant escapes first.

This whole ordeal is frustrating enough, but the insult is that the engine otherwise runs quite well.

Regards
 
If the gasket you used was shaped like the one on the left, that's the cause of your problem. If the gasket looked like the one to the right, that hole is sealed.

269806806_3024275674501909_3753915682270749551_n.jpg

SteveC
 
fiatfactory said:
If the gasket you used was shaped like the one on the left, that's the cause of your problem. If the gasket looked like the one to the right, that hole is sealed.

View attachment 68725
SteveC
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the one on the left is what was supplied from Midwest.

Additionally, Matt there advised that I fill/seal that port - which I did. Before doing so however, my head rebuilder and I looked that port over closely and found it to be a dead end anyhow.
 
It's not a dead end, it runs thru to the exhaust ports on 1 and 4... the holes in the exhaust port may be a bit blocked up with carbon, but put a few pounds of positive pressure behind them and water is going to leak past....

and by "block the port" what do you mean? a nub of silicone isn't going to do the job.

Once again pressure from the cooling system will allow water to get past or move a silicone plug,

the gasket to the left will leave the hole partially exposed to the cooling system, replace the gasket with the right one and try again.

SteveC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top