X1/9 style/design custom modifications

dirtywaterfab said:
Heretic X1/9 hacker again. Not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but a different rear deck subject here. My older sister dated a Fiat service tech when the X1/9 debuted in 1972-ish, and he would come by with different Eckses from the dealership. I’ve only recently come to really appreciate the X’s wedge era design, I wasn’t a huge fan when it first came out. The usual reasons – the bumpers, the front end lifted to meet the bumper height reqs, the resultant empty front wheel well (was the rear raised as well?), the anemic 13s, and the luggage rack. Ugh. But the thing that got me the most was the downward sloping rear deck. To my eyes the design is stellar from nose to the trailing edge of the B pillar but that rear deck makes it look like a scared little dog.

To that, here are some A/B pics of an upward sloping rear deck. I plan on incorporating this on my build. Thoughts?

(The blue with the bronze wheels. Be still my heart…)
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I see what you mean. Honestly I had never noticed that detail of the design. Your renderings look promising. I suppose seeing one modified this way in person, from all angles, would tell for sure.

I think the rear downward sloping angle may have been more in line with the styling cues of the late 60's, early 70's, when this design was first pinned. While the raised rear angle you demonstrate might be more representative of a later era - say 80's or so? But I'm not sure.

Your altered images remind me of a highly modified X I saw a pic of. It had widened the rear fenders by moving the entire quarter panels outward. And that gave the overall shape of the rear half more along the lines of what you are proposing.

To accomplish this mod would you cut/raise the stock bodywork in the rear, or make completely new panels?
 
JKIDD said:
I think it ends up looking like a speedboat.
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I could not resist the opportunity to repost these classics.
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Dr.Jeff said:
To accomplish this mod would you cut/raise the stock bodywork in the rear, or make completely new panels?
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Great question. At this point I don't know. Obvi given where the chassis is I've tons to get done before I get to this. Still, I like to "pencil in" a project plan early on then flesh it out as I learn more and the start time approaches. If things go to plan I want to take coachbuilding classes with Wray Schelin at https://www.proshaper.com/. Wray just introduced a 30 day class structure which includes instruction, full access to his shop and more importantly, access to his immense knowledge and experience. I'll rely heavily on his recommendation. Interestingly, the 30 day class description states all panel work is to be done in aluminum sheet.
 
Steve Thomas said:
better add the "10 -12 inches" into the wheelbase. All between the rear edge of the door and the normal rear wheel position. That will have strong visual effect.
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Yes, absolutely. Speaking abstractly, there's a number of changes happening to the rear sheetmetal: angling the rear deck upward, "moving" the wheelwell aft for the increased wheelbase, adding IMSA Group 5-style box flairs (front and rear) to fit the widened ~60-inch track.

All that said, I fully realize that adding all this additional sheetmetal on to the rear runs the risk of a seriously klunky design. I think one way to possibly mitigate that risk is is a fastback design (which oddly enough obscures the upward angled rear deck) similar to the BMW M1, another great wedge era design:

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I found this really cool 3D model for the X: https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/fiat-x19-1973-bertone-3d-1820217

I've reached out to a local college to see if I can hire an Industrial Design student to modify this model to include the changes outlined above. including the fastback. And if possible I'll have them print a 1/18 scale model. Can't wait to see that. I'll definitely be sharing those images.
 
dirtywaterfab said:
Heretic X1/9 hacker again. Not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but a different rear deck subject here. My older sister dated a Fiat service tech when the X1/9 debuted in 1972-ish, and he would come by with different Eckses from the dealership. I’ve only recently come to really appreciate the X’s wedge era design, I wasn’t a huge fan when it first came out. The usual reasons – the bumpers, the front end lifted to meet the bumper height reqs, the resultant empty front wheel well (was the rear raised as well?), the anemic 13s, and the luggage rack. Ugh. But the thing that got me the most was the downward sloping rear deck. To my eyes the design is stellar from nose to the trailing edge of the B pillar but that rear deck makes it look like a scared little dog.

To that, here are some A/B pics of an upward sloping rear deck. I plan on incorporating this on my build. Thoughts?

(The blue with the bronze wheels. Be still my heart…)
View attachment 79158 View attachment 79152
View attachment 79153 View attachment 79155
View attachment 79156 View attachment 79157
Click to expand...
Looking at your photoshopped pics with the raised rear brings up another area of the X's design that I personally dislike. I've discussed it before but will say it again because somehow the "raised rear deck" seems to accentuate it even more. I'm referring to the lower area of the front nose. The way it slopes rearward as it goes down, creating a 'negative' shape - especially when viewed from the side profile. I call it a "slack jaw" because it makes the nose of the car look weak and lazy. The main reason I do not like noses that slope rearward underneath is because it seems to impose a serious "lift" issue in terms of aerodynamics. Even it is actually doesn't, it gives that impression. Kind of the opposite of a front air dam. Here is what I mean (yellow line):

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This was common on "wedge" car designs from that era, but I've never liked it on any of them. I prefer a more "performance", or "racey" look with a fuller lower facia. Giving the face a much stronger, more masculine appearance. Just for reference here is a rendering of a prototype modern X1/9 with a fuller nose (yellow circles, ignore red circles):

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Do you feel like the raised rear changes the "wedge" enough to make this aspect of the nose more obvious? Would changing the lower nose area as I've described add to the overall look you are going for?
 
Be careful using side elevations to think about styling. Might work on a full sized truck or bus but for low cars, you never view them that way. Many very beautiful in the flesh cars look odd in pure side elevation. Designers understand the true vantage point.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Looking at your photoshopped pics with the raised rear brings up another area of the X's design that I personally dislike. I've discussed it before but will say it again because somehow the "raised rear deck" seems to accentuate it even more. I'm referring to the lower area of the front nose. The way it slopes rearward as it goes down, creating a 'negative' shape - especially when viewed from the side profile. I call it a "slack jaw" because it makes the nose of the car look weak and lazy. The main reason I do not like noses that slope rearward underneath is because it seems to impose a serious "lift" issue in terms of aerodynamics. Even it is actually doesn't, it gives that impression. Kind of the opposite of a front air dam. Here is what I mean (yellow line):

View attachment 79162

This was common on "wedge" car designs from that era, but I've never liked it on any of them. I prefer a more "performance", or "racey" look with a fuller lower facia. Giving the face a much stronger, more masculine appearance. Just for reference here is a rendering of a prototype modern X1/9 with a fuller nose (yellow circles, ignore red circles):

View attachment 79163

Do you feel like the raised rear changes the "wedge" enough to make this aspect of the nose more obvious? Would changing the lower nose area as I've described add to the overall look you are going for?
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Yes, definitely see your point. But I believe the car in this image is an empty chassis fresh from the spray booth thus sitting kinda high. Here's a good side view at ride height, but your point is well taken:

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Would you prefer a look more like this?

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I see that OEM grille and chin spoiler as kinda shark-like but I also see it as slack-jawed, as you described. Obviously a design choice, but could it be functional? What I mean is, when looking under the front hood, the sheetmetal that surrounds the radiator forces the cooling air abruptly downward after exiting the radiator, could this be producing back-pressure? If so, is this massive maw under the front bumper line necessary to ensure enough cooling air moves through the radiator?

Is this more in line with what you prefer?

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Whatever the "solution" employed, I would prefer its design not deviate too far from the 70s wedge vibe. I think a subtle air dam like that on the M1 would work great, but that on the red X looks too 80s to me. Not that I necessarily dislike the 80s - who among us doesn't love a good spikey hair post-punk/new wave jam?
 
You will end up with M1 proportions - in particular, the lenght between rear door edge and wheel centerline plus if you want big wheels withOUT that idotic tonka toy raised look, then your front is also going look M1. Which is no bad thing!
 
Apropos of nothing, are you familiar with the 1970 Italdesign VW Porsche Tapiro?

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I hope Jane doesn't offend...

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Gorgeous design, wot? Based on the 914 and remarkably similar to the 1975 Maserati Bora

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Back to the slack-jaw/shark nose topic, I think the chin spoiler on the 1982 Lancia 037 Stradale looks great and would fit the X nicely. I think it's the leading lower edge/quasi splitter design feature that nails it.

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Steve Thomas said:
You will end up with M1 proportions - in particular, the lenght between rear door edge and wheel centerline plus if you want big wheels withOUT that idotic tonka toy raised look, then your front is also going look M1. Which is no bad thing!
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On the topic of wheels, what size do you guys run? I'm thinking no bigger than 15" with 40-series rubber. I'm actually guessing here, but a tire/wheel combo that fills the wheel well. Anything much bigger than that throws off the balance of the rather tiny X.
 
dirtywaterfab said:
On the topic of wheels, what size do you guys run? I'm thinking no bigger than 15" with 40-series rubber. I'm actually guessing here, but a tire/wheel combo that fills the wheel well. Anything much bigger than that throws off the balance of the rather tiny X.
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I have 15"x6.5" wheels with 195/45/15 tires on my 85X.

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dirtywaterfab said:
Yes, definitely see your point. But I believe the car in this image is an empty chassis fresh from the spray booth thus sitting kinda high. Here's a good side view at ride height, but your point is well taken:

View attachment 79166

Would you prefer a look more like this?

View attachment 79167

I see that OEM grille and chin spoiler as kinda shark-like but I also see it as slack-jawed, as you described. Obviously a design choice, but could it be functional? What I mean is, when looking under the front hood, the sheetmetal that surrounds the radiator forces the cooling air abruptly downward after exiting the radiator, could this be producing back-pressure? If so, is this massive maw under the front bumper line necessary to ensure enough cooling air moves through the radiator?

Is this more in line with what you prefer?

View attachment 79168
Click to expand...
Yes, you've got the idea of what I was saying. The topic of radiator airflow has been discussed and there are several factors that make it a whole topic on its own. But I believe the negative slope under the front end was not for cooling air flow, but more the aesthetic of the era...as you demonstrated on some other vehicles (M1, Tapiro, Bora, Lancia, and many others).

Regarding the height of the X's nose, a higher front suspension setting does accentuate the negative nose issue further, however it is not the cause of the problem...the body design under the nose is (I dislike it on a dramatically lowered X as well).

As for solutions to this negative front lower body shape, I like a few options depending on the desired "look" you want to achieve. For example with big box flares and a more 'track' inspired look then a full front air dam (as on the red X in your post #231) works. For more of a 'street' look with less radical bodywork then large front spoilers like on the M1 pic or 037 pics works for me.

Here's a few random examples of various solutions I've seen:
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