1979 x1/9 (US), headlight/marker/"parking" light operation - what's "correct"?

[Fiataccompli]

Yes, many thanks for the scans! While my questions at the moment are mostly limited to the lighting, this stuff is useful and I've almost always had the same thing for every Fiat I've owned. Would you object to having these added to the library at Mirafiori? That is proving to be a good long-term Fiat tech resource. I'm not a moderator, but I've got friends who are...

 

[7982X]

No objection whatever. We also have them for 80 & 81, if needed.

 

[Fiataccompli]

Thanks..:I've uploaded the 79 diagrams to the Mirafiori library. If you'd like to message me the others, I will add them as well. Thanks! In fact, this has inspired me to look at other useful Fiat docs to scan & add to the Mira library.

 

[7982X]

Regarding the mystery black wire. It's been suggested it could have been the original power fed between the alternator and starter, but a second one was later added and the old one just left hanging. That could match what I'm seeing.
Is your '79 a factory AC car?

Ooops, sorry Chris I went off topic again. I also sent you a "PM" reply.

Sorry, I didn't see the question until now. Our 79 is NOT a factory A/C car. The 82 IS.

 

[7982X]

Thanks..:I've uploaded the 79 diagrams to the Mirafiori library. If you'd like to message me the others, I will add them as well. Thanks! In fact, this has inspired me to look at other useful Fiat docs to scan & add to the Mira library.

I will be happy to do that......it may take some time, but yes!

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Sorry, I didn't see the question until now. Our 79 is NOT a factory A/C car. The 82 IS.

No problem. I was curious if the 'mystery black wire' we discussed above (on my '79) might be related to the AC circuits. But I don't think so. I believe the other suggestion is correct...it is the original power lead to the starter that was just left dangling when a heavier replacement lead was added.

 

[jrl665]

I took the liberty of adding the wiring diagrams to the X1/9 wiki

 

[7982X]

Great....I will try to start scanning the other diagrams & put them here as I can.
Thanks for your patience.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Back to the original question about the headlight switch operation on the '79.
I've finally sorted my 79's electrical issues to the point that I was able to connect a battery and try everything. All lighting operations are working as they should. However with the headlight switch in the "park" (or "running lights") position it functions as follows:
Key 'off' = headlight doors down, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on.
Key 'on' = nothing on (no lights, no open headlight doors, no anything).
I've checked (and swapped) all relays and fuses. And I've cleaned all contacts and the light switch. But still the same. All other circuits are working properly and everything is stock on this car.
This does not sound the same as described earlier in this thread. How does it compare to any of yours?

 

[Andy]

I agree that does not sound right.
From memory for my experience is that in the Park position, all marker lights (front back, and sides) are on, headlight buckets are up, but headlights are off.
This has bugged me as I would like to not have the buckets raise until the switch is in the Headlight position, I just haven't taken the time to figure out what needs to be done to accomplish that.

 

[7982X]

I only checked our 79 once, about a year ago. Here is what we saw...
headlight switch in the "park" (or "running lights") position
Key 'off' = headlight doors down, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on.
Key 'on' = headlight doors down, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on.

The 81 does this.....
headlight switch in the "park" (or "running lights") position
Key 'off' = headlight doors down, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on.
Key 'on' = headlight doors up, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on.
If I remember correctly, even when you turn the key off, the headlight pods stay up, until you turn the lights totally off. Once off, you can then turn the park lights on (with the key off) and Key 'off' = headlight doors down, headlights off, all marker ("running") lights on repeats itself..
Hope that helps.

 

[7982X]

I agree that does not sound right.
From memory for my experience is that in the Park position, all marker lights (front back, and sides) are on, headlight buckets are up, but headlights are off.
This has bugged me as I would like to not have the buckets raise until the switch is in the Headlight position, I just haven't taken the time to figure out what needs to be done to accomplish that.

I'm right there with you. When we started to build the 79, I was determined to figure that out. In looking at the 79 diagram, it indicated that it should work like you want. I tried our 79 & it did. I would think that if you wire it like the 79, it should do what you want it to do.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Then it sounds as though there is something wrong on mine, which I expected; it really did not make sense that the "park" position on the switch would do nothing with the key "on".
Now the question is what is wrong? I have gone through the Factory Electrical Diagnostic Manual (EDM) and the '79 wire diagrams generously provided in the thread (thanks again), and done all the checks but have not found the problem. However it is likely I've missed something in the EDM, I don't find it to be the easiest guide to follow (but better than anything else).
Any suggestions?

 

[7982X]

Doesn't make sense to me either.
The first thing that comes to mind is to check for 12V at the light switch with the key on. Maybe the lighting relay? Haven't thoroughly studied the lighting circuit, but at a glance, the lighting relay doesn't appear energize until you turn the ign switch on.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Thanks. It does sound like a relay problem, but I thought the same relay acts in both key 'off' and key 'on' modes...could be wrong. None the less, I swapped around the relays while cleaning terminals and checking functions. One headlight door has a burned-out diode; won't go up by itself but retracts as it should if manually raised, the other side works normal. During the testing for that, the "parking light" issue did not change regardless of which relay was where. So that should have eliminated the relay possibility (though I'm not 100% certain).

 

[Fiataccompli]

FWIW, mine does exactly what you are describing with regard to lighting in relation to switch position & key switch position. I've had other Fiats (not hacked ones) that seemed to be wired with either all lights on or not...I think...and parking lights for when you cars is parked, i.e. not running does make sense I agree.

Having studied the wiring diagram (also, thanks again here), it would appear that I could modify it to have marker lights on/no headlights/pods down when the key is "on" & switch is in "park" position, but I haven't had a chance to physically check this due to a very busy holiday weekend followed by a busy week currently. I'll remain watching this thread with interest. Thank god for luxury problems like this to worry about, eh?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

So Chris, you and I have the same arrangement. And my X's electrical system also has not been hacked (not yet, I will being hacking on it soon). Perhaps this is how some units were made?

For comparison, German cars of the era had a system where the turn signal could be left on (with the key off) and the running lights on only that side of the car would remain on. That way if you were parked in a spot that it might be hit, the lights on that side would be on but the rest off to save the battery. Actually a good system for countries where parking is difficult.

Frankly I'm not that concerned if the "running lights" work or not, I never use it in that mode...all lights are either on or off. And after I convert all the lights to LED's (except headlights will be either HID's or Halogen), and shave all the stock turn and clearance lights off to replace replace with custom items, it won't really matter. I just wanted to know if the electrical system functioned properly before I start modifying things.

On a related note, I cannot rationalize why they would design it so the headlight doors are up but headlights are not on under any circumstance (as the later models are).

 

[7982X]

I kind of looked at it that way as well. I never liked the pods up if the headlights weren't on.

At any rate, here are the wiring diagrams for the 1980 models. I will post the 1981 diagrams when I can get them scanned in, hopefully within the next week. OOOPS, the remaining 3 pages will follow.

 

[7982X]

The last three.

 

[Fiataccompli]

Awesome! Thanks.

From a strict European perspective, the switch operation makes sense to me. Sad to say, but I have usually valued driving with markers only with Fiats when I'm dealing with one that has some electrical issue. So in that case, pods up is handy for flipping lights on/off with minimum energy draw. On the other hand, i always hope those conditions are short-lived. I guess I'm not European, so I do like the idea of markers with the car running when you are parking or otherwise moving the car at night and don't want to blind out someone with headlights (one thing I hate about modern car lighting). I'm converting the 79 to 74 type bumpers but the lighting will all generally remain. On one hand, shaved markers or European (i.e., signal repeaters) side lighting is cool, I can't help but think having corner markers is a dang good safety feature.