camber adjustment

No actual factory adjustment is provided for camber on the X19...

You can get "camber bolts" which fit into the upper bolt position of where the hub attaches to the strut, and these can be used to set camber... there are lots of other methods too..

Camber angles depend on spring stiffness and roll stiffness... i.e. the more roll stiffness you have the less camber equired as the "basic" aim is to get the outside wheel straight up and down when the car is at maximum roll angle... which varies according to ride height, roll stiffness etc etc etc

A little more negative at the front helps reduce the understeer... so thats good, go for somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 of a degree...

too much negative will also induce a phenomemon called "camber thrust" where the car will want to follow road irregularities...

SteveC
 
Everything Steve says...

There are other options as well...

Adapting top end strut adjusters from other cars and elongating the three mounting holes are two other options as well.

Those wiggle-bolts Steve speaks of I know are available through Obert and work very well if minor adjustments are what you seek. As Mark Plaia says also, that the amount of adjustment on the lower end of the strut is worth twice as much at the top end! I've experienced that for myself.

Mad Matt may also carry those bolts... I've only used ONE per side but TWO per side will give you even more flexibility. A bit expensive per se', but relatively cheap and easy and effective for most needs!
 
Midwest Camber Plates

Hey
How hard are these to fit into the X? It just seems easier to use these instead of stuffing about at the strut upright junction. Is there much cutting. I have Koni struts all round
Nick
 
You mean these?

http://www.midwest-bayless.com/stor...=camber+plates&submit=Search&search_text=+X19

If so... you need to enlarge the hole and redrill for the plates as well. I don't know if drilling templates are included... give Matt a call and find out. If you are gonna go this route you ought to consider the Plaia Tower doublers as well along with Plaia Pivots or Mad Matt's equivalent.

This will give you all the adjustment you'll ever want and they are usually used on Autocross and Race cars that require FREQUENT camber changes.

Are you sure ya wanna do all this?

I can't find the wiggle bolts on Obert's site but he should have them. These should be sufficient to bring the car into stock limits and modify camber a bit if you just want that.

Your choice... have fun!
 
You have a way

Hi Tony
Since I still owe you a donut, I am thinking... maybee you are right.. do I need to do all that? No I dont. So in order to prevent owing you another donut I will get the pins. Chris does have them and reasonably priced compared to here anyway.
Do you have to enlarge the holes into which they fit and if so how is this done properly.. I have done this before on racing kart camber adjusters and the holes have to stay parallel to eachother when you drill the bigger hole
Thanks again Tony
Nick
 
duderduderini said:
Hi Tony
Since I still owe you a donut, I am thinking... maybee you are right.. do I need to do all that? No I dont. So in order to prevent owing you another donut I will get the pins. Chris does have them and reasonably priced compared to here anyway.
Do you have to enlarge the holes into which they fit and if so how is this done properly.. I have done this before on racing kart camber adjusters and the holes have to stay parallel to eachother when you drill the bigger hole
Thanks again Tony
Nick
Click to expand...

Sounds like this is what I need to sort out my camber issues after lowering the car!

Nick, any chance you can post a link on where to find these on the Obert site? They have some great stuff, but I must say its not the most user friendly site to find your way around!!!

Many thanks!
 
I used the montecarlo camber bolts...

and this is the stance with car lowered almost 2" in the front and 1.5" in the back...

IMG_0940.jpg


IMG_0948.jpg


IMG_0943.jpg


IMG_0942.jpg
 
Few things to note

Since the top is mounted with the rubber mounts, these bolts also change the angle at the top. On the 79 and later, the narrower hole with the formed shape (increases rigidity) can cause interference with the hard steel cone on the strut assembly. There is definitely a limit to how far you can go.

Also worth noting is that when the car is lowered that toe out increases big time. These bolts make the toe out even worse.

Since the pics, I've raised the car (using homemade coil-overs) 1/2 an inch and got a 4 wheel alignment and it handles way better with a lot less bump steer.

Getting a professional four wheel alignment done by a competent shop is money well spent. IMHO

T
 
No... holes are NOT enlarged...

The "wobble" in the bolt is the size of the hole on the strut and the "neck" and "foot" of the bolt is a smaller diameter... which forces the offset. Washers are used on each end to keep it in place properly and you'll see how they work once you have them in hand. I believe the nuts and washers are supplied with the bolts.

Could you please post the link to Chris' site on this part... I couldn't find it.

AND... its about to RAIN out here... weird huh? I've been standing out front waiting for my donuts and don't wanna get THEM, or me wet... Do you have the Fedex tracking number... GEEZ, ya can't trust those guys!
 
On second thought... I have seen holes...

ELONGATED on the struts themselves!

Stock bolts, or Camber Adjustment Bolts can be used and only the CLAMPING FORCE of the stamped steel mountings were used to hold them in place.

I have NO IDEA if they stayed in place though... but it SEEMS like it MIGHT work under normal driving conditions, at least. Maybe some sort of "shim" could be inserted on either side of the elongated holes and then the bolts installed.

Anyway... thought I'd mention it...

It would also seem that someone with a lathe could mill and thread their own adjustment bolts if they wanted also... They could use the stock bolts, as the head offset does not appear to be that necessary. The cost in time (and purchase price of hardened bolts if the stock ones were not used) could possibly negate the effort.
 
Pins

Hey.
you beat me to the link re the camber pins.I dont intend to lower the car at all so it should minimise the toe problems. I have noticed the front strut towers are domed slightly but the rears are not so i need to address that first. Can they be straightened? I would imaging this doming has affected the alignment to a degree ( I can do puns as well).
Finally once its all back together, finding a decent wheel aligner in Albury is impossible. They all are pretty much throughput oriented. So much so that i am seriously considering learning how to do one myself. Does anyone do their own alignments?

Thanks for the help
Nick
 
They stay in place nicely.

I use a set of these...
That way, I'm not cutting into my perch, but only drilling a 5/8th hole in the top of a (replaceable) strut. 1/8" offset proved to be perfect for lowering the springs 1 full coil. (drops just a little less than 1 inch)

-Just another idea. :)

newstrutboltssmpz5.jpg


boltaccentric1smsf5.jpg
 
Hey Bob

Hi Bob.
Umm where did you get those? You made them if I am not mistaken. If so would you consider making a set for me?
Nick
 
Well, Unfortunately....

No, Sorry, it takes me an 8-hour day to make a complete set.
The reason for this is because I don't have automated equipment.
I do it all by hand, and I'm not a speedy machinist. :huh2:

I can tell you that you'll need 0.750 Stainless hex stock, 304 preferred, it's hard and slow to work with.
The hole is offset by 1/8 inch of center.
Those spiffy bolts I used were Grade 10 bolts from a Harley-Davidson, chromed, of course. :geek:
Crazy money, crazy time. But I love the result.
Those bolts can be bought from the U.K. and I believe from the X1/9 group out there.
Last I heard they were over $105 BP.

If you want to make a set of your own, I'll post the drawing I made up way back... when?
 
Bob, Nick... with Obert's wobble bolts...

... you don't drill out the perch or the strut mounts either.

They mount directly in place of ONE mounting bolt, loosening the OTHER bolt, which allows for 1.5 degrees of adjustment versus stock. I'm not sure whether placing it in the top or bottom mount gives you more or less movement...

Use TWO and they are stated to give you 3 degrees of total camber movement which should be more than enough. $80 bucks for four and with tax and shipping probably $100 overall.

Not as shinny and nice as yours... but then again, they are available NOW with no drilling or encumbering upon a friendship.

OH... Nick... you mentioned your front towers were DOMED! You'll need a set of Plaia Tower Doublers from Obert also... His server is slow probably because of a storm hitting the area that came from NEW HAMPSHIRE or something... Anyway, they install under the towers and simply bolt up under the strut... might as well cut the springs and add Plaia Pivots as well.

Plaia Pivots: http://www.fiatplus.com/members/tech1101.htm

This is what you will be most likely be replacing with the Plaia Pivots:

<script src='http://img819.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=005bab.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript></noscript>

Lezesig' method of modifying the strut shaft after cutting ONE coil: http://www.network54.com/Forum/1215...rings-++How++NOT+to+use+zip-ties-++Free+Pics-

I recently did this and they are PERFECT... works great! I was able to use a BENZENE torch to heat and gently bend the last coil. Ground to fit. Les' measurements concerning overall shaft length didn't match mine (and I can't fined my original post...) but the the amount threaded and cut was the same. Also, I retained the stock nuts and used the stock 12 x 1.25mm threads. Cost was about 5 bucks for the Die, pictures follows:

<script src='http://img72.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=004nbz.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript></noscript>

<script src='http://img819.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=005bab.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript></noscript>

Tools needed:

<script src='http://img375.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=016vg.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript></noscript>

String Method of alignment: http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1160974758/FOUR+WHEEL+ALIGNMENT+-+STRING+METHOD

(Another home remedy that really works!)
 
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