Dallara detailed build info and specs

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
I am planning for a Dallara replica build and I am currently collecting parts. A couple of days ago I bought a full kit very cheap that also contained a set of Tarox coil overs. The coils are very old, missing top plates and springs so I will probably not use them. The deal also included 4 big boxes with several 1980 X1/9 parts; electrical stuff, lamps, wire loom etc; a complete dashboard, a heater box... and a steel trunk lid.
I made sure my wife was out when I unloaded the parts and moved them to a hidden place in the attic. She would probably kill me if she knew my plans😁.
Next step will be finding a cheap X1/9 wreck to start building the chassis. That will be a hard time explaining to the wife as I can't hide it.
My goal is to build a race-only Dallara replica as close to the original as possible. It will be impossible to find the correct drivetrain but maybe I can find a Ritmo 105TC engine/box or similar. I've searched the net for Dallara X1/9 detailed info with no luck. Does anybody in the Forum know where to find detailed information about chassis, suspension, and roll bar? Or even built a replica close to the original. Any help is appreciated.
IMG_20220914_142929.jpg
IMG_20220914_144703.jpg
 

carl

True Classic
I find it amusing when guys "hide" cars they buy from the wife. With the amount of money you will be spending on this inspiring project I find it hard to believe your wife won't wonder why you won't be able to make a few mortgage payments on time!

Wife and I have no secret accounts and even the Amazon and paypal are in her name so when I paid for some seat components via paypal she was asking me about it fifteen minutes later (to be sure it wasn't a stolen identity thing).
 

fiatfactory

Steve Cecchele
Dallara isn't a Fiat twin cam engine - that's the Prototipo - the Dallara uses the same SOHC block but with a bespoke Dallara twin cam (but single drive pulley) cylinder head.

Closest engine type you'll find from the Fiat/Lancia parts bin is the 1600 (1581cc 86.4 x 67.4) Brava 16valve engine, which like the Dallara head flows inlet from the firewall side and exhaust towards the rear of the car.

SteveC
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Dallara isn't a Fiat twin cam engine - that's the Prototipo - the Dallara uses the same SOHC block but with a bespoke Dallara twin cam (but single drive pulley) cylinder head.
Yes I am aware of that, and finding an engine or a such cylinder head would be very difficult and very expensive. I think replacing the head on the SOHC with 16 valves DOHC has been mentioned here, but there is nothing that fits from what I remember from the discussion.
I never thought about the Brava engine and I didn't know that the design is close to Dallara. A Brava engine/box would be even easier to find than a Lampredi TC here. Thanks for the tip.
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Closest engine type you'll find from the Fiat/Lancia parts bin is the 1600 (1581cc 86.4 x 67.4) Brava 16valve engine
Is it the 182.A4.000 (103 hp) engine you're thinking about? Found a complete one incl box for 600 EUR at a junk yard just 10 km away.
It looks like this engine has two cam pulleys (not a single shared pulley as you mentioned). The intake runners are very long so probably a lot of torque but not very rev happy.
fiat-brava-motor-182a4000-1-6-16v.jpg
 

Eastep

True Classic
Yes I am aware of that, and finding an engine or a such cylinder head would be very difficult and very expensive. I think replacing the head on the SOHC with 16 valves DOHC has been mentioned here, but there is nothing that fits from what I remember from the discussion.
I never thought about the Brava engine and I didn't know that the design is close to Dallara. A Brava engine/box would be even easier to find than a Lampredi TC here. Thanks for the tip.
IIRCC there's a guy many years ago that was selling Dallara full engines. I think they were like 30k. Might be worth looking into
 

kmead

Glutton for punishment
I find it amusing when guys "hide" cars they buy from the wife. With the amount of money you will be spending on this inspiring project I find it hard to believe your wife won't wonder why you won't be able to make a few mortgage payments on time!

Wife and I have no secret accounts and even the Amazon and paypal are in her name so when I paid for some seat components via paypal she was asking me about it fifteen minutes later (to be sure it wasn't a stolen identity thing).
We are the same. 41 years that way, few money arguments
 

kmead

Glutton for punishment
Is it the 182.A4.000 (103 hp) engine you're thinking about? Found a complete one incl box for 600 EUR at a junk yard just 10 km away.
It looks like this engine has two cam pulleys (not a single shared pulley as you mentioned). The intake runners are very long so probably a lot of torque but not very rev happy.
View attachment 65925
Yes that was actually referred to as the Torque line of engines. In South America they made it in a 1.9l version which made 133hp.

There is a nearly square version which was still a 1600 the 182.B6 which should be a bit better at revving.

DD1507A8-5653-4CD6-B685-69B09C73B5C1.jpeg

There are folks in Australia who have put them into Xs down there but the web sites are now defunct. The crank pulley side mount is the biggest
complication.

A very compact unit, the head arrangement is ideal for an X in my mind with the intake to the front and exhaust to the rear.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Nice Project!

There was an ad for the Dallara / Jolly club version some years back that had a number of pics of the suspension, etc., I think I saved a couple. The rear suspension is also bespoke with redesigned hub carriers, etc. I'll see if I can find the pics I have & add them here.

Can't you strip the coilovers and use different inserts? They look decent besides the top plate...

I'd say go with the highest HP 16V you can find - the Dallara was around 200BHP, I believe.
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Can't you strip the coilovers and use different inserts? They look decent besides the top plate.
There is not much left if I strip them I'm afraid. They definitely can be restored and fabricating top plates is not very complex. I will see what I can do when time comes. This is a long term project hopefully starting next winter. Until then I will plan, continue to collect parts and most importantly I need to find a cheap wreck.
This winter I will focus on having the 128 SL ready. I've found a good warm winter storage for my X1/9 so I will have lots of space in the garage/workshop.
Would be fantastic if you could find the detailed info I am looking for. I've also sent Leif Lindström a mail. He owned (maybe still is) and raced a real Dallara here in Sweden during the late 70's and early 80's.
 

Kurt

True Classic
I find it amusing when guys "hide" cars they buy from the wife. With the amount of money you will be spending on this inspiring project I find it hard to believe your wife won't wonder why you won't be able to make a few mortgage payments on time!

Wife and I have no secret accounts and even the Amazon and paypal are in her name so when I paid for some seat components via paypal she was asking me about it fifteen minutes later (to be sure it wasn't a stolen identity thing).

might want to check the Amazon balance if it’s in her name then! If you aren’t hiding things she is hahah. Our Amazon spending is insane
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
these are all I have - only one partial of the rear suspension. The other is just a rear end shot & a nose detail
Thanks for the pics Hussein, much appreciated.
The cross-member bar seems to be very low which in turn allows the engine to be mounted lower.
A very simple but clever anti-roll bar design.
 

MikeHynes

True Classic
Interesting pics of the Dallara car. It looks like it had a SOHC block, and possibly a 4 spd based trans without the tri - pole joints.
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Interesting pics of the Dallara car. It looks like it had a SOHC block, and possibly a 4 spd based trans without the tri - pole joints.
Yes, it is definitely the SOHC block. It is a Colotti straight cut dog-box trans with LSD. I think the trans still can be bought, but too expensive for my budget.
 

dcioccarelli

Dominic Cioccarelli
Yes I am aware of that, and finding an engine or a such cylinder head would be very difficult and very expensive. I think replacing the head on the SOHC with 16 valves DOHC has been mentioned here, but there is nothing that fits from what I remember from the discussion.
I never thought about the Brava engine and I didn't know that the design is close to Dallara. A Brava engine/box would be even easier to find than a Lampredi TC here. Thanks for the tip.

If you want an original Dallara style head, you might want to try here:


Cheers,
Dom.
 

fastx19

Administrator
Moderator
Thanks for the pics Hussein, much appreciated.
The cross-member bar seems to be very low which in turn allows the engine to be mounted lower.
A very simple but clever anti-roll bar design.
What's interesting about the pictures show the lower a-arm, etc. is the engine is not really any lower in the car. Look at the 4 speed behind it. While the really pretty dry sump makes the engine smaller, the transmission is now the problem with space. Wish I could see the upper mounts for the a-arms as well. It also looks heavy (i.e., the hardware used such as steel vs. aluminum, etc.)

Fun to see!
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Thanks for all your replies. The Dallara style head from CF Motori looks really interesting but may be too costly. The more I think about it, going for the SOHC is the most interesting way to keep it close to the original. -With or without a 16 valve head. -With or without turbo. I have lots of power in my street X so I probably wouldn't be happy with less power in a race Dallara. The cheapest way to obtain power is going turbo so another crazy idea popped up:
I have a 1500 in spare so why not stroke it to 1600 and turbo it? Not a mild turbo setup like @Dr.Jeff is working on, I want 300hp from it. It has been discussed that the 138 "siamese" block is weak, and cannot handle the heat, lubrication etc. but if Graversen managed to get 370hp from a stroked 1300 I think it is doable. The design of the 1500 is very like the Uno Turbo in many ways so it is probably much tougher than most people think. But crank, conrods, and pistons must be upgraded of course. I will have lots of time to plan and think about the engine until time comes.

Got some tips and ideas on FB (thanks Julian Brown if you are a member here) for framing and tubing. The pics show a very robust cage, probably much safer than an original Dallara, and some parts of it are probably necessary to meet modern regulations. But the build (from UK) has no front suspension framing due to national regulations. However, this is allowed in Sweden even on a street legal car so a Dallara front suspension pic would be interesting to study.
Frame2.jpg
Frame.jpg
 
Top