Exhaust

X

X19black

Low Mileage
So my new 1500 engine is ready to put back in the car.
I tuned her a little with dual 36 dcnf, a fast road cam, lightened flywheel , opened up ports in head, and electronic ignition. All it needs now is an good exhaust . Should I buy a complete exhaust including manifold or use the euro 1500 4-2 manifold an build something myself . What is the best option?
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You put all that work into making a nice motor, why would you choke it down with a cast manifold? Get a header. I recommend ours but just about any header flows betterthan the best OEM manifold.
 
I made two exhausts recenlty. This one has a cat and connects to either a cast iron 4-1 manifold with custom down pipe or a header. Exits to the right:

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This one works with a similar IAP header, but no cat and is a left exit:

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The cast '74 (dual outlet) manifold with the stock muffler offers very good performance - for the money.

How much do you want to spend?

You can certainly get more power out of a well designed header. Bang for the buck it's hard to beat the stock '74 exhaust. I've got the stock '74 exhaust, with a hogged out manifold and down pipe, on a very similar engine (I've got maybe a bit more compression) and it works very well.
 
I sure want a good exhaust for the engine , and I thought I read somewhere that the stock dual outlet header was pretty good . I saw this one on eBay
http://www.ebay.it/itm/112026268596
Are these so much better than stock??
I think this is serious money for an exhaust
 
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The stock twin out exhaust manifold is surprisingly good at doing it's job, the standard mufflers (especially the european spec ones) leave quite a bit to desired from a performance perspective, so if you use the standard manifolding and improve the muffler and pipe sizing, then it is more than adequate for everything but an outright race engine. Most aftermarket headers are designed for a 'convenience' fit or visual appeal, rather than for true performance....so unless your having something custom made, go for the late model (1600 engine style) twin out exhaust manifold as this has the largest port size. You also want to maintain a reasonable 'anti reversion step' at the bottom of the exhaust port, the top should be a nice flush port match, but the slow side of the port can benefit from a step to prevent the exhaust gasses reversing back into the combustion chamber on overlap.

Most US vendors rate their exhaust product to show an improvement over stock, but you need to remember in the USA the standard fitment for nearly every X19 is a single outlet manifold and a convoluted 'round the houses' front pipe... a change to a twin out exhaust manifold from the single outlet and single front pipe, as this is a real power robber and worth around 8hp on a totally standard (euro spec) engine. 128 coupe 1300 and 128 rally had identical engine specs, cam, carb, head, static CR identical... except the exhaust manifold and front pipe... coupe had a dual out and twin front pipe, and 75hp... 128 rally had a single outlet exhaust manifold and a single front pipe, 67hp. If the same vendors rated their product against the twin out manifold and pipe the percentage increase would be at most a couple of percent, and not a lot of bang for the bucks outlay!

SteveC
 
Our long tube header with muffler keeps up the velocity and makes more power on everything from a stock 1300 to a wild 1500 race motor. At idle you can feel the exhaust pulses on Jerry's 1500, 5 feet back from the outlet. Feel free to ask every other vendor how well their units keep up the velocity and ask every person with a stock setup.

http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_7_75&products_id=4461
http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_7_75&products_id=4462
 
My opinion and this is only my opinion is the Vick's Header has suited me very well but .... unless you are tracking your car the Vick's Muffler is too loud for everyday driving. I have this current setup and I needed to insert a CC Insert to quiet it down enough. My plan is to mount a less aggressive Muffler to the Vick's Header.
This is no fault of Vick's as they clearly state it is an open free flow Muffler.
Again this is only my opinion and I don't want to discourage anyone from any of Vick's products as they have treated me well. Also the Header comes with the proper attachment to mount a stock muffler if you chose to go that route.
 
phillips82 said:
Our long tube header with muffler keeps up the velocity and makes more power on everything from a stock 1300 to a wild 1500 race motor. At idle you can feel the exhaust pulses on Jerry's 1500, 5 feet back from the outlet. Feel free to ask every other vendor how well their units keep up the velocity and ask every person with a stock setup.

http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_7_75&products_id=4461
http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_7_75&products_id=4462
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They don't "make power" and resonance is no indication of performance (if it were then my lawnmower would do 250mph). It sounds like a good performance exhaust, and I'm sure that by contacting every vendor you'd hear 90 reasons why their exhaust is the best. Which leads to no conclusion at all.
 
Velocity not resonance. Sound or resonance is not a sign of performance. Keeping up velocity helps with cylinder fill and anti reversion. But thanks for confusing things Brad. We all appreciate it.
 
bradartigue said:
I'm trying to avoid the litany of how ridiculous your statements on your magic power making exhaust are.
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Apologies everyone; I have an obvious visceral response to these vendor ads guised as a post. I shouldn't take the bait.

On topic:

The cast iron manifolds made by FIAT should always be in consideration because they are so well made. They last forever, they flow well, they fit. They are not the highest performance option.

Headers are a step down in quality but up in performance. A well designed header and exhaust won't last as long or fit quite as perfectly as stock, but the elimination of some of the wacky turns stock systems make can help quite a bit.

The big killer for headers is the steel quality and heat = rust = the end.
 
I've had an IAP header on my '85 for the better part of 20 years; and it was used when I bought it. I had it ceramic coated and it's still as good as new. Of course, things don't rust out here like in other regions. I think Vicks' is the same or at least similar? I don't have personal experience with stainless steel headers (IAP's were mild steel), but Vicks SS offering sounds like a good way to go.
 
bradartigue said:
Apologies everyone; I have an obvious visceral response to these vendor ads guised as a post.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more Brad.

In my very humble opinion the only company who ever got a set of headers right for the X engine was Ansa with their 4-2-1 system.

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The primary pipes are absolutely of equal length and the correct i.d. and length. These headers increase power to a small but discernable degree, but more importantly they increase torque. These lengths are designed to take advantage of the high pressure wave that is generated when the exhaust valve opens, this wave travels at or near the speed of sound. That is the only velocity that is relevant here. When the high pressure wave reaches a junction a corresponding low pressure wave returns back up the pipe which aids in scavenging of the exhaust gases from the cylinder before the exhaust valve closes. It's all very elegant and based on real science.

I have experience with a 4-1 header I bought from IAP for the rally X to replace a system very similar to the one that Steve Cecchele describes. I was full of excitement when I installed it and bitterly disappointed as soon as we hit the rally stages. A dyno test showed we had gained a massive 3hp at very high revs, but had lost torque throughout the entire rev range. Torque is what really matters when it comes to acceleration. Obviously with a less competition biased engine our power gain may well have been better and maybe torque would have been closer to standard. One of the biggest issues with the 4-1 systems I've seen is the collector is way too short, which causes a restriction to flow. A longer (and probably more expensive) collector would probably make a worthwhile difference. I knew this to be the case with my IAP unit because in very short time the paint on the collector had burned off while the rest simply changed colour. i.e. there was a lot of friction in the collector. I would applaud any vendor who made this fix, and calculated the rev range at which max torque will be generated and advertised that information.

Unfortunately these Ansa headers are now as rare as rocking horse poop. I approached a local company about making a batch of replicas but the initial outlay to get the project started was beyond my means.

Cheers,

Rob
 
I guess the moral of the story is, everyone has different needs and opinions (ever ask Al what he thought of Ansa's?). Unfortunately, there aren't many choices out there these days. I'm glad for the ones we have.
I would definitely agree that a 4-2-1 system yields more low end vs a 4-1 more top end. That's just based on my personal, limited experience.
 
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I had my stainless exhaust custom built and added a cat to tame her a bit. Granted, I am turbo'd and that quiets things down a bit. I run the exhaust off of a Uno Turbo manifold and she flows quite nicely. Cheers,

Here is the link to how she sounds.
 

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Well that's a discussion.I am in Europe and when I order a manifold and muffler from the states it at least takes a month to get here and much extra taxes. So I am looking here in Europe. I don't race with my car , just sporty Street use . A complete exhaust system would cost me around €1000 here that's way more than I spend on the engine until now. But I don't want to use the stock manifold and than put the extra hp gained by the other stuff put to waste. So when I use the dual outlet manifold, use the two downpipes an weld an aftermarket muffler to it. I shouldn't lose hp do I??
 
Not if you make the system well.... I would hazard a guess that you could even get more power than using a 'less well' designed header and muffler combination from one of the usual vendors.

My 1500 with this exhaust made 99hp at the rear wheels with a single 34DMTR carburettor, 2.25 mandrel bends, 2.25 inch internals on the muffler and a 2 inch tailpipe section (not shown in the pics)

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... obviously yours would need to pacakge differently anyway as the outlet in europe will be on the left and most of the aftermarket offerings will exit on the right anyway, so would require modification of the system or the bodywork...
 
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