Failed my state inspection... need some ideas

D

Doc

True Classic
Hi all-

So, I failed my state inspection over the weekend for a few issues that I knew about, but was hoping they didn't notice :) I've tinkered with both issues, and I'm coming up short, so I'd welcome any ideas you have.

- The emergency brake light won't go off. This has been a problem for years, and other inspectors have overlooked it since the ebrake *does* work correctly. In looking at the switch itself, it would appear that the switch design is such that if it were completely unplugged (single wire, so grounding to the body), the light should go off, right? Mine does not. If I'm not understanding how this works, I can certainly just replace the switch...

- The horn isn't working. I have checked continuity on the switch, and it's fine. The fuse is good. When I bench test the horns, they both work fine. I swapped the relay with a known good one, and it didn't help... so I'm out of ideas.

Speaking of fuses, the fuse to lower the headlights has blown. It's one of the two really small fuses in the fusebox. I have been unable to find these locally, and I don't know what they are *called* so I don't know how to find that size online. The micro glass fuses are too large.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 

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Volvo used those same (Euro style Ceramic) fuses on all 140/240 series - you can get a 'kit' from IPD , if you can't find a local resource

The horn contact ring maybe be faulty, unless when you say you tested the switch, you meant you tested it though the steering column switch assembly, that would include the contact ring

the parking brake indicator wire must be shorted to ground somewhere, perhaps it's the cluster connection at issue?
 
This applies to later model cars--not sure if it applies to yours.

The brake light circuit can be grounded and thus the light illuminated by either one of these:

1. ebrake switch

2. brake fluid level switch, in reservoir cap

If these are functioning properly see the next para.

There is also an electrical path thru the brake light that leads to the timer for the seat belt warning light. The power for the headlight motor relays and the headlight motor control relay also flows thru the seatbelt timer, so there's a commonality that could be your smoking gun. The rear window defogger relay and the cigar lighter are also on this daisy chain---if the lighter and/or the rear defogger are inop, more evidence that the seatbelt timer could be the problem.

If the seat belt timer is suspect, you can divorce the two brake light circuits from the seat belt timer by unplugging a white with black stripe wire from the the seat belt timer. Since no reference material seems to know for sure where this timer is or what it looks like, ID the seat belt timer by its three wire connections:
C: dk blue/red stripe
+: Orange
C1: white/black stripe

According to the wiring diagram I have for earlier cars, the timer uses these colors:
C: Green
+: Yellow
C1: white/black stripe
-: black/violet stripe

Once the seat belt timer is disconnected, if the two other brake light switches and wires are good, we would expect the brake light to behave normally--off/on with the handbrake, and off/on by manipulating the reservoir cover float with your finger, and by the light test rubber button on the cap.
 
Last edited:
Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
What year is your car?
Click to expand...

It's a 1983.

lookforjoe said:
Volvo used those same (Euro style Ceramic) fuses on all 140/240 series - you can get a 'kit' from IPD , if you can't find a local resource

The horn contact ring maybe be faulty, unless when you say you tested the switch, you meant you tested it though the steering column switch assembly, that would include the contact ring

the parking brake indicator wire must be shorted to ground somewhere, perhaps it's the cluster connection at issue?
Click to expand...

Thank you for that link! My local NAPA, which is usually pretty good, gave me a blank stare when I showed them that fuse.

The horn... it's an aftermarket Grant steering wheel. I pulled the wheel itself, and tested the switch both installed and uninstalled from the wheel hub- the switch is fine. I'm sure of that.

Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
This applies to later model cars--not sure if it applies to yours.

The brake light circuit can be grounded and thus the light illuminated by either one of these:

1. ebrake switch

2. brake fluid level switch, in reservoir cap

If these are functioning properly see the next para.

There is also an electrical path thru the brake light that leads to the timer for the seat belt warning light. The power for the headlight motor relays and the headlight motor control relay also flows thru the seatbelt timer, so there's a commonality that could be your smoking gun. The rear window defogger relay and the cigar lighter are also on this daisy chain---if the lighter and/or the rear defogger are inop, more evidence that the seatbelt timer could be the problem.

If the seat belt timer is suspect, you can divorce the two brake light circuits from the seat belt timer by unplugging a white with black stripe wire from the the seat belt timer. Since no reference material seems to know for sure where this timer is or what it looks like, ID the seat belt timer by its three wire connections:
C: dk blue/red stripe
+: Orange
C1: white/black stripe

Once the seat belt timer is disconnected, if the two other brake light switches and wires are good, we would expect the brake light to behave normally--off/on with the handbrake, and off/on by manipulating the reservoir cover float with your finder, and by the light test rubber button on the cap.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I will check the brake fluid level switch. I assume it would make the light go on if the level is too low? Or would it require that switch to fail?

The headlight motors go up, but as noted in my initial post, the fuse to put them down has blown, so maybe you're onto something here. I'll check the lighter. My rear defogger has never worked in the 23 years I've owned the car :) If it is that seatbelt timer, where would I find those wires? and what is this test light you're talking about? A button on top of the reservoir cap?
 
Those Volvo fuses appear to be the longer ones, not the short ones like these. This fuse is only 16mm long. It's really tiny.
 
Doc,

If you look in the BOX in the electrical topics there is a link for fuse panel threads. A few people have replaced the old c-clip style fuse holder with a modern ATC style holder from ladapower.com. It is more of a project, but those tiny 3 amp ceramic fuses have been very hard to find for a long time.
 
Doc said:
Those Volvo fuses appear to be the longer ones, not the short ones like these. This fuse is only 16mm long. It's really tiny.
Click to expand...

Dang. I forgot about 1/2 size ones - worst case, have you tried MWB to see if they have used ones from a parts car?
 
Doc said:
It's a 1983.



Thank you for that link! My local NAPA, which is usually pretty good, gave me a blank stare when I showed them that fuse.

The horn... it's an aftermarket Grant steering wheel. I pulled the wheel itself, and tested the switch both installed and uninstalled from the wheel hub- the switch is fine. I'm sure of that.


Thanks! I will check the brake fluid level switch. I assume it would make the light go on if the level is too low? Or would it require that switch to fail?

The headlight motors go up, but as noted in my initial post, the fuse to put them down has blown, so maybe you're onto something here. I'll check the lighter. My rear defogger has never worked in the 23 years I've owned the car :) If it is that seatbelt timer, where would I find those wires? and what is this test light you're talking about? A button on top of the reservoir cap?
Click to expand...
According to the owners manual for my '86, it recommends that the low level function of the warning light be periodically checked by depressing the rubber button built into the reservoir cap while the ignition is set to run and the handbrake position is disengaged. This action should turn on the light.

But if yours is always on, that check doesn't help you until you correct the always on condition.
 
If you do find a new fuse, you might want to look for the ground issue before you install it. It would suck if it popped immediately.

I will look through some boxes, but I think I have lots of the bid fuses and none of the small, like everybody else. :D
 
I don't think the short sized (3amp) Continental fuses are available anymore. I tried looking over here but Google isn't finding anything...
 
Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
According to the owners manual for my '86, it recommends that the low level function of the warning light be periodically checked by depressing the rubber button built into the reservoir cap while the ignition is set to run and the handbrake position is disengaged. This action should turn on the light.

But if yours is always on, that check doesn't help you until you correct the always on condition.
Click to expand...
I never knew that! I'll take a closer look at switch, and the cap. I wonder if the sensor is like a float that can be manipulated by hand... Obviously, I'll also double check to make sure that the brake fluid level is correct, but it's always been fine and the light hasn't worked in years :)
 
Those 'short' fuses haven't been manufactured for a very long time. You might find some left over stock somewhere, but I have no idea where. It is possible to bend the "tabs" that hold those fuses back so a regular size fuse will fit in them. That puts the contacts at a odd angle relative to the tips of the fuse, making the fuse less secure, but it works. Not ideal but I don't know of a better option.

At one time you could get 'glass tube' fuses with the same "pointed ends" as the European ceramic style ones. And the shorter ones were available in that style. Those glass versions were better than the ceramic ones in my opinion, they didn't seem to corrode as much. However the glass ones also haven't been made in some time. But you may find them left over in a old stock somewhere because people did not know they existed so rarely bought them.
 
Your idea of adding a inline fuse holder in place of those short fuses might be worth exploring. Ideally you could get to the back side of that panel and splice them in from there instead of at the tabs. But that would be a much larger project. The fuse box cover will no longer fit over them, but I guess that's a small sacrifice. Will your state inspectors have any issues with doing that?
 
Here is what the "Euro style" glass tube fuses look like - although this example is not the correct length:

611Fj85IYQL._AC_SL1001_.jpg
 
Just thinking about this and looking at a full sized version, if the plastic part (blank) of the fuse is ok you may be able to peel of the end caps and solder some 3amp wire between them and refit to the blank
 
You might try taking the fuse element from a long fuse of the correct value and sticking it on the ceramic body of the dead short fuse with the old fuse element removed. You will have to bend the element a bit to make it fit. Just don't let the element touch itself as you want the current to flow through the entire fuse element.
 
Dug around and found a tiny box of Bussman fuses in the glove box of the 78 project car. I got all excited till I got it open and found all 8amp fuses. Then I went and looked under the dash area of the raceX and the PO had pulled the fuse box and replaced it with a simplified ATC set up in the center console area. So I struck out, which is kinda what I expected, but I wanted to look to see what I had on hand.

I think your idea of going with an inline adapter is a good one to get past the immediate issue. If you want to solve the problem long term for all circuits; get the Ladapower ATC panel. It is more work for sure, but if you plan to keep the car long term, it may be worth it.
 
Doc said:
The horn... it's an aftermarket Grant steering wheel. I pulled the wheel itself, and tested the switch both installed and uninstalled from the wheel hub- the switch is fine. I'm sure of that.
Click to expand...
I may of misunderstood where you've tested, but the sprung contacts of the column stalk assembly sometimes don't quite touch the steering wheel ring/switch - it's not uncommon for the stalk clamp to be loose and so the stalks move down the column slightly 😲 Did you try shorting the contacts when the wheel was off?
 
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