Fender rolling the X

[lookforjoe]

I'm not familiar with the specific stock bump stops on that Volvo, but on many German cars they are similar to the X1/9's rear dust boots. In other words they are not on the center shaft, but part of the upper mount and more of a large sleeve than a small cylinder. That might make some stock applications not fit the Bilstein design well, which might be why Bilstein doesn't recommend using the stock ones in those cases?

Not sure where you got Volvo from Jeff - the Bilstein B8's are on my X1/9, in VW tubes welded to X1/9 mount sleeves

I was referencing Volvo in an earlier response to you regarding the bump stop similarity to the VW ones you posted - perhaps that was the connection?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Not sure where you got Volvo from Jeff

Wait, why wouldn't anyone automatically think you were referring to a Volvo part?

 

[DanielForest]

Steve,
I still got on my shelf the Granada springs from your car that Brett M. sold me 20 years ago. I used them on my 1987 daily driver with Koni shocks in front for a few summer, but hey are HARD!

 

[rx1900]

Just a quick FYI: Internal bump stops are intended as a 'fail safe' to prevent damage to the foot valve should the rod hit the bottom of the tube. They are not intended as the primary suspension bump stop. Assuming the internal stop is adequate, its possible, depending on the specific installation, that the strut housing will bottom against the upper mount/perch before the internal stop is engaged. The resulting hard bottoming will surely damage something.

That's interesting. Bilstein specifically states to retain the OE bumpstop on other fitments. I suppose it might be specific to the application.

Hi Steve. I can explain that. Yes..Hussein is correct...his Bilsteins did indeed come with internal bumpstops. And yes, they ARE the primary ( and only) suspension bump stop for that application ( VW Rabbit ).

This is a pic of VW Rabbit front strut. Actually very similar to an X1/9 strut.

The OE bump stop on the Rabbit was simply a rubber stop like this that slipped tightly over the exposed 20mm shock shaft. And got squashed between the upper spring perch and the gland nut at the top of the insert when it came into play.

all is pretty simple so far. If...you replace the insert in that strut housing...of course you just re-use the original bump stop. As the replacement inserts from Boge, Gabriel, Koni, KYB, etc...all have of course a 20mm shaft.

Except.....the Bilstein insert for a Rabbit ( actually like all Bilstein monotube inserts ).....due to their inverted design actually have a shaft diameter of about 35mm !!! And look like this when installed in the housing: ( yeah I know pic is not of exact application but you get the idea )

so...2 problems here. First ....as the shock shaft is now about 35mm....there is no way you could re-use the existing VW OE bump stop - it only has a 20mm ID. Even if Bilstein supplied a larger ID bump stop of the same length and configuration.....there is no longer a "landing spot" for it on top of the gland nut !! almost zero room there now...

So....in this case...Bilstein simply instead built-in a new bump stop...internally inside the new strut insert. With a similar length and rate. Functioned just like the original external bump stop.....and of course replace it entirely. They had no other real option in this case. Understand ?

If...for example..Bilstein made a monotube strut insert for say an early X1/9....they would not have had this problem...as the Fiat bump stop was a different system ( not tightly over the shock shaft ). They could have made an insert with the same travel as stock...and you could have retained the stock Fiat OE bump stop.

But...for any car that utilized a bump stop system like the VW.......they would surely have to engineer an insert with an internal bump stop that indeed functioned as the "full primary suspension bump stop"

Yes.....this all means that I have some reservations about using Bilstein monotube VW Rabbit inserts on an X1/9. i'd prefer to be able to choose my own bump stop length and rate.

Hope this explains things. Doug

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Hi Steve. I can explain that. Yes..Hussein is correct...his Bilsteins did indeed come with internal bumpstops. And yes, they ARE the primary ( and only) suspension bump stop for that application ( VW Rabbit ).

This is a pic of VW Rabbit front strut. Actually very similar to an X1/9 strut.
View attachment 36851
The OE bump stop on the Rabbit was simply a rubber stop like this that slipped tightly over the exposed 20mm shock shaft. And got squashed between the upper spring perch and the gland nut at the top of the insert when it came into play.

View attachment 36852

all is pretty simple so far. If...you replace the insert in that strut housing...of course you just re-use the original bump stop. As the replacement inserts from Boge, Gabriel, Koni, KYB, etc...all have of course a 20mm shaft.

Except.....the Bilstein insert for a Rabbit ( actually like all Bilstein monotube inserts ).....due to their inverted design actually have a shaft diameter of about 35mm !!! And look like this when installed in the housing: ( yeah I know pic is not of exact application but you get the idea )
View attachment 36853

so...2 problems here. First ....as the shock shaft is now about 35mm....there is no way you could re-use the existing VW OE bump stop - it only has a 20mm ID. Even if Bilstein supplied a larger ID bump stop of the same length and configuration.....there is no longer a "landing spot" for it on top of the gland nut !! almost zero room there now...

So....in this case...Bilstein simply instead built-in a new bump stop...internally inside the new strut insert. With a similar length and rate. Functioned just like the original external bump stop.....and of course replace it entirely. They had no other real option in this case. Understand ?

If...for example..Bilstein made a monotube strut insert for say an early X1/9....they would not have had this problem...as the Fiat bump stop was a different system ( not tightly over the shock shaft ). They could have made an insert with the same travel as stock...and you could have retained the stock Fiat OE bump stop.

But...for any car that utilized a bump stop system like the VW.......they would surely have to engineer an insert with an internal bump stop that indeed functioned as the "full primary suspension bump stop"

Yes.....this all means that I have some reservations about using Bilstein monotube VW Rabbit inserts on an X1/9. i'd prefer to be able to choose my own bump stop length and rate.

Hope this explains things. Doug

I think you are correct.

I didn't know which strut had been used here.

Interestingly, I have only used a few sets of Bilstein struts. Most of my experience with them has been with shocks. Everything from Miatas to Corvettes.

 

[TDeReggi]

Many years ago when I did roofing, the running joke was to send the new guy to get the "shingle stretcher" from the VAN. "Fender roller"?, If I hadnt seen it here in this post, I wouldnt have thought there was such a thing. Coolness. So, how much room, can one typically make , rolling the fenders with the tool? To be more specific, to accomodate larger wider rims/tires , often it requires Fender flares and/or coilovers. For example Midwest Bayless suggests this for 195/45s and 15x7 Panasports on the front. I was planning on putting on Fender flares on my road race project build, . Are people typically just cutting off and trimming the fender metal? Or is "rolling the fenders", all we need to get the old fender out of the way with adequate clearance? Im not currently planning to lower the car, because I believe maximizing wheel clearance is more important, for a hard driven vehicle. But Im considering going to taller tire because of ture availabilty. For example, I cant find hardly anything at 195/45-15, dont even see 888Rs anymore. but tons of choices at 195/50-15. Im finding the same with with 14", or any width tire, such as 205 and 225. . If I go with an aspect ratio that is 8-10mm taller than stock, options are available. I didnt really want to use a taller tire, Id prefer stock or lower aspect ratio, but its about availability.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Many years ago when I did roofing, the running joke was to send the new guy to get the "shingle stretcher" from the VAN. "Fender roller"?, If I hadnt seen it here in this post, I wouldnt have thought there was such a thing. Coolness. So, how much room, can one typically make , rolling the fenders with the tool? To be more specific, to accomodate larger wider rims/tires , often it requires Fender flares and/or coilovers. For example Midwest Bayless suggests this for 195/45s and 15x7 Panasports on the front. I was planning on putting on Fender flares on my road race project build, . Are people typically just cutting off and trimming the fender metal? Or is "rolling the fenders", all we need to get the old fender out of the way with adequate clearance? Im not currently planning to lower the car, because I believe maximizing wheel clearance is more important, for a hard driven vehicle. But Im considering going to taller tire because of ture availabilty. For example, I cant find hardly anything at 195/45-15, dont even see 888Rs anymore. but tons of choices at 195/50-15. Im finding the same with with 14", or any width tire, such as 205 and 225. . If I go with an aspect ratio that is 8-10mm taller than stock, options are available. I didnt really want to use a taller tire, Id prefer stock or lower aspect ratio, but its about availability.

Go back to the very first post in this thread, he shows a picture of the fender roller (the green thing).

Your questions have many answers depending on lots of things. How much fender clearance you will need is a function of the wheel size and offset, the tire size, the use of spacers (stock or aftermarket), the ride height, the type of suspension (stock or coilovers), the condition of your suspension components, the alignment settings, the amount of extra room you want (e.g. what "look" you are after), and more. So it really depends, and there isn't a easy answer.

However for the most part there are a few things that can be achieved with a fender roller (shingle stretcher). The inner fender lip can be rolled in and up, the fender lip can be stretched outward, the general outer fender area can be 'pulled' out, the shape/contour of the fender arch can be changed, etc. How much of any of these things you can do also depends. On the X the rear fenders a double walled so they are more difficult to move a lot. But the fronts are typically where you require moore room (mainly due to the fact the front wheels turn when steering).