I expect electrical issues with my fine Italian car, but 2 weeks ago when I put it into the dry storage barn and covered it with fine linen while I went on vacation, the turn signals worked just fine. Today when I took it out, they are not working. (Are they just spiteful?) I look in my Haynes manual and I can't find the easy chart that tells me what fuse the turn signals are on. Confusingly, the digital clock stopped working a couple of days before the storage. Hmmmm. Any ideas?
Fusebox blues
- Thread starter jasco
- Start date
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
That'll teach you to go on vacation...
... and leave the X at home.
Kinda like my pup... She'll let me know one way or another of her displeasure.
I think the clock is a good clue... and I'd start with what TK recommends. Also remember the HAZARD flasher and switch is PART of that circuit also.
If the cursory stuff doesn't get it... then break out a drawing and we can brainstorm this together.
... and leave the X at home.
Kinda like my pup... She'll let me know one way or another of her displeasure.
I think the clock is a good clue... and I'd start with what TK recommends. Also remember the HAZARD flasher and switch is PART of that circuit also.
If the cursory stuff doesn't get it... then break out a drawing and we can brainstorm this together.
Thanks for the info, guys. My car is an '82. As soon as the sun comes up I'll take a look at the fusebox. It's such a pain to put back up once it's down. There is such a rat's nest of wires in there so it's a mighty tight fit. The one and only time I managed to convince a "hot chick" to come for a ride, the fusebox dropped on her feet at the first bump. oops.:grin:
Checked the fuses and nothing is blown. Here's a list of what don't work: Turn signals, clock, defroster blower, seat belt alarm. What does work that Tony said was on the same circuit: emergency flashers. Actually the seat belt alarm has been on-again-off-again since I changed the ignition switch. Looks like I'm about to get an education in the wiring of this thing.
mg:
mg:
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
WELL, WELL, WELL...
Do you have a schematic for an 82?
I might have one if ya don't, but its a pain to copy and send. I will though...
My Hazard Flasher interaction issue was on my '79 about 100 years ago. An '82 is probably wired a bit different but as you are aware... both these circuits MUST come together somewhere as they power the same lights. I was just saying there is an interaction... not that one MUST or even MAY be the problem with the other. In my case it was, as I miss-wired the hazard switch and it messed up the directionals.
Yur gonna need a test light or a VOM and the drawings if you are to remain sane and fix this problem. Get back to me with your issues if ya need to and we can git this done...
Do you have a schematic for an 82?
I might have one if ya don't, but its a pain to copy and send. I will though...
My Hazard Flasher interaction issue was on my '79 about 100 years ago. An '82 is probably wired a bit different but as you are aware... both these circuits MUST come together somewhere as they power the same lights. I was just saying there is an interaction... not that one MUST or even MAY be the problem with the other. In my case it was, as I miss-wired the hazard switch and it messed up the directionals.
Yur gonna need a test light or a VOM and the drawings if you are to remain sane and fix this problem. Get back to me with your issues if ya need to and we can git this done...
The only wiring diagrams I have are in the Haynes manual where they have the "North America" and "European" versions. The NA one seems clearer, but I don't know how to read wiring diagrams. The Euro one is so muddled it's hard to see. I'm going to take them to work today and blow them up on the copier to see if I can make any sense of them. I appreciate your offer of help, though. I'm gonna need it.
I just found this link on another thread that looks like it may help. Tell me what you think.
http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/
I think the seat belt alarm is a red herring. (Just a gut feeling), and the most pressing problem is the turn signals, so I think that's where I should start. At least I know I didn't mis-wire anything, since I didn't TOUCH the wiring.
Damn...I was going to start some bodywork this weekend.
I just found this link on another thread that looks like it may help. Tell me what you think.
http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/
I think the seat belt alarm is a red herring. (Just a gut feeling), and the most pressing problem is the turn signals, so I think that's where I should start. At least I know I didn't mis-wire anything, since I didn't TOUCH the wiring.
Damn...I was going to start some bodywork this weekend.
Last edited:
1 quick check
Just to eliminate the possibilities... It's a quick visual check.
Be sure the ground loom under the dash (to the left of the steering wheel) has all of it's connections
pushed on tight and that it's making a good connection with the chassis to which it's mounted.
This point grounds several points to your console, including the control signals to your directionals and headlight pods.
Just to eliminate the possibilities... It's a quick visual check.
Be sure the ground loom under the dash (to the left of the steering wheel) has all of it's connections
pushed on tight and that it's making a good connection with the chassis to which it's mounted.
This point grounds several points to your console, including the control signals to your directionals and headlight pods.
Let's just say it is the switch...
Why is it failing regularly? Are you using stock headlights or something stronger? Any other irregular ign. switched loads?
Why is it failing regularly? Are you using stock headlights or something stronger? Any other irregular ign. switched loads?
Maybe?
I think of it like this. When you are starting or running the car and its accessories, you're drawing a certain load through the switch. If the switch, contacts, wiring etc. are too small to easily pass the current needed to support the load, then you have resistance. If the total current supplied to the switch (which a brown wire mod increases) is too small, then the resistance is greater. Resistance creates heat, which damages the switch and other components further... increasing resistance and so forth until failure begins.
So, in short (heh) I think a brown wire mod would help. There seem to be many versions of this mid, the original "brown wire mod" doubled up the wire from the battery to the ignition switch, to help supply power to the switched accessories. This is the version that would help you. Part of the "mod" is just maintenance; inspecting, cleaning, tightening connections. Renew all fuses if you are unsure of their age. Unplug and re-plug all connections that are easily accessible several times. All these things help.
I think of it like this. When you are starting or running the car and its accessories, you're drawing a certain load through the switch. If the switch, contacts, wiring etc. are too small to easily pass the current needed to support the load, then you have resistance. If the total current supplied to the switch (which a brown wire mod increases) is too small, then the resistance is greater. Resistance creates heat, which damages the switch and other components further... increasing resistance and so forth until failure begins.
So, in short (heh) I think a brown wire mod would help. There seem to be many versions of this mid, the original "brown wire mod" doubled up the wire from the battery to the ignition switch, to help supply power to the switched accessories. This is the version that would help you. Part of the "mod" is just maintenance; inspecting, cleaning, tightening connections. Renew all fuses if you are unsure of their age. Unplug and re-plug all connections that are easily accessible several times. All these things help.
I'll check the connections tonight. I had some corrosion problems in a connector in the engine compartment last fall, so this sounds like a pretty good place to start. Especially since the barn it was stored in was kind of damp. We had a lot of rain the week I was gone.
Matt Brannon said:
[FONT="]That last switch that you received was an original equipment Sipea unit, the best quality available.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We autopsied the two failed switches that you returned to us, and found that the internal terminal block[/FONT]
[FONT="]inside of the switch had melted down and failed in both instances. We chalked it up to the possibility of these[/FONT]
[FONT="]switches being built using poor quality insulating terminal material, and promptly pulled the switches from [/FONT]
[FONT="]availability in the storefront, figuring we may have gotten a bad batch of switches.[/FONT]
[FONT="]However, if your car has eaten a Sipea switch set, then you have bigger issues going on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Do you have a big car audio system, driving lights, drive at night in the rain with heater and wipers on, etc?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Sounds like something is giving a massive power draw.[/FONT]
I'll do the BWM this weekend instead of body work! I wasn't afraid to dig into the timing belt project, I can do the wiring work too!mg:
Matt Brannon said:
[FONT="]That last switch that you received was an original equipment Sipea unit, the best quality available.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We autopsied the two failed switches that you returned to us, and found that the internal terminal block[/FONT]
[FONT="]inside of the switch had melted down and failed in both instances. We chalked it up to the possibility of these[/FONT]
[FONT="]switches being built using poor quality insulating terminal material, and promptly pulled the switches from [/FONT]
[FONT="]availability in the storefront, figuring we may have gotten a bad batch of switches.[/FONT]
[FONT="]However, if your car has eaten a Sipea switch set, then you have bigger issues going on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Do you have a big car audio system, driving lights, drive at night in the rain with heater and wipers on, etc?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Sounds like something is giving a massive power draw.[/FONT]
I'll do the BWM this weekend instead of body work! I wasn't afraid to dig into the timing belt project, I can do the wiring work too!
mg:
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Hey Jasco... I believe the 1981 Schematic...
... the he one closest to the car you have.
Here is the link to the turn signal page:
http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/x_wiring/81/05 Page 05 Hazard And turn stop.jpg
The 83 - 87 is the BERTONE version with lots of changes... and as you can see, the 82 version is kinda missing.
These drawings, BTW, are from the FIAT Shop Manual and are also duplicated in the CLYMER books... and as you can plainly see, differ greatly than what ya find in the Haynes manual.
IMHO, they are not only accurate, but the BETTER choice as they are separate and distinct drawings for the specific circuit you are working on. Less confusing to use.
They also could have been done better, as they are not drawn by the same engineers from drawing to drawing. After studying these for years, one finds a distinct signature. It woulda been nice if they could be overlayed... and a bit more consistent... but they are what they are.
Anyway... I see yur off on another tack... and doing a BWM will definately help... but will NOT fix what isn't working.. Don't hesitate to call between 9 - 9 PST if you think I can help. We now have a common drawing to refer to. (661-296-7277)
... the he one closest to the car you have.
Here is the link to the turn signal page:
http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/x_wiring/81/05 Page 05 Hazard And turn stop.jpg
The 83 - 87 is the BERTONE version with lots of changes... and as you can see, the 82 version is kinda missing.
These drawings, BTW, are from the FIAT Shop Manual and are also duplicated in the CLYMER books... and as you can plainly see, differ greatly than what ya find in the Haynes manual.
IMHO, they are not only accurate, but the BETTER choice as they are separate and distinct drawings for the specific circuit you are working on. Less confusing to use.
They also could have been done better, as they are not drawn by the same engineers from drawing to drawing. After studying these for years, one finds a distinct signature. It woulda been nice if they could be overlayed... and a bit more consistent... but they are what they are.
Anyway... I see yur off on another tack... and doing a BWM will definately help... but will NOT fix what isn't working.. Don't hesitate to call between 9 - 9 PST if you think I can help. We now have a common drawing to refer to. (661-296-7277)
Wow, Tony, that is a very generous offer! I'm in Illinois, so that puts me at 8-8. Perfect. (9 is my bedtime:grin Now I don't know what to do first. I think I'll start with the spade connectors in the fusebox. I gave it a cursory examination last night and didn't see anything obvious, and I swear I saw a spark in the fusebox when I switched on the heater blower, but was unable to duplicate it.
Now I don't know what to do first. I think I'll start with the spade connectors in the fusebox. I gave it a cursory examination last night and didn't see anything obvious, and I swear I saw a spark in the fusebox when I switched on the heater blower, but was unable to duplicate it.
Now that I have the diagram, what exactly do I do? I have a multi-meter, so do I check for voltage, or continuity, or what? Should I try to isolate every length of wire and check it individually or sort of start at one end and work my way through until I find something? Other than a basic understanding of electrical circuits and the ability to add an outlet to my house once in a while, my knowledge of electronics is nil.
TonyK
True Classic
Start the car.
Then check fuse H is it live? If not go back further on the print. If it is then go to a signal lamp, turn on the signal indicator and see if there is voltage. If not, then go back to the first connector and check the wire for power ( flashing). Then get back to us.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
Then check fuse H is it live? If not go back further on the print. If it is then go to a signal lamp, turn on the signal indicator and see if there is voltage. If not, then go back to the first connector and check the wire for power ( flashing). Then get back to us.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.