Gearbox oil capacity

[Janis]

Good price. I paid 38,50€ per liter.

Latvian reseller buys it from Sweden's reseller

 

[ghostdancing]

wow that's expensive oil! does this magic fluid worth the expense?? i must admit that i went on the cheap commercial grade oil when i serviced my gearbox last year..but my car is not a turbo\racer\street war beast..

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

wow that's expensive oil! does this magic fluid worth the expense?? i must admit that i went on the cheap commercial grade oil when i serviced my gearbox last year..but my car is not a turbo\racer\street war beast..

I trust Steve Hoelcher that the oil prevents tranny disasters. The cost for transmission oil is just a piss in Mississippi compared to all other costs I've spent on her.

 

[carl]

I usually use the funnel and hose method but have also used one of those pumps that screws onto the Redline bottle. It takes forever using those things. I try to use a clean container under the trans to catch any major spills so I can reuse it. That, sir is what us cheap Fiat owners do.

 

[Janis]

Bjorn, next time You can check- maybe it is cheaper for You to buy oil from Finland or Estonia. Shipping with Omniva shouldn't be too much.

TEXAS Service epood

Öljyt, kemikaalit, huoltotuotteet - Autotuotteet - Red Line

Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation aloitti 1979 kehittämällä voiteluaineita kilpamoottoripyöriin. Johtoajatuksena on aina ollut valmistaa parhaita mahdollisia tuotteita, tekemättä kompromisseja kustannusten vuoksi.

www.polarautovaruste.com

 

[Janis]

@Steve Hoelscher, I just found and spoked with official distributor of Redline in Latvia, he said that they have moved from Redline to Sepco, as they have tested that as better product (not on Fiats). In their stock from Redline has left only 3 bottles of 75w90 oil, that has been there for 3 years, that's why he said that can sell it to me for very cheap- is that worth that?

He also understood why You are suggesting exactly MTL on these gearboxes, and agreed on that.

 

[Janis]

75w90 is same MT90.
or not, more I search, more I understand about them.

Ok MTL is way to go

75w90 is GL5 and MT90 (75w90) is GL4? And GL5 is not compatible with X19 gearbox. Did I understand correctly?

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

75w90 is same MT90.
or not, more I search, more I understand about them.

Ok MTL is way to go

This is why I go crazy. The "Redline Dealer" is giving you bad information. Redline 75w90 is blended as a differential lubricant and had EP additives specifically to cushion hypoid gears. The EP additive will attack the synchronizers in the X1/9 transmission and therefore should NEVER be used in one.

MT90 is equivalent to 75w90 as far as viscosity goes but the additive package is completely different.

If you are having difficulty finding Redline MTL Castrol Synchromesh is a reasonable alternative, as is GM Synchromesh fluid. There are others from Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc..., but I haven't tested any of those.

 

[Janis]

Thanks, I'll just order MTL from neighbour country - less problems for all.
And after that reread advices about refilling.

 

[Janis]

75w90 is same MT90.
or not, more I search, more I understand about them.

Ok MTL is way to go

75w90 is GL5 and MT90 (75w90) is GL4? And GL5 is not compatible with X19 gearbox. Did I understand correctly?

i wanted to say - "more I don't understand"

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Its been a long time since I had to buy gear lube so I haven't looked at the specs lately. Plus I've used various RedLine products in several different vehicles over the years so I might be confusing the details. But aren't MT90 and MTL both GL4 and both without EP additive? I believe the difference is mostly the weight is a little heavier on one? Or are there other additive changes between them? I've studied this before but like I said, I don't recall.

Like Steve mentioned, I've also heard good things about "Castrol Synchromesh" and "GM Synchromesh" in similar gearboxes. They may offer better availability in other countries? However it might be worth checking the specs for any lubes if you are buying from another country; I have seen where the same brand and label of product is actually different in other parts of the world. Seems the makers will use various sources or comply to different regulations, but market them as the same - despite being different in terms of additives, ratings, specs.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

But aren't MT90 and MTL both GL4 and both without EP additive? I believe the difference is mostly the weight is a little heavier on one? Or are there other additive changes between them? I've studied this before but like I said, I don't recall.

Yes. GL4 without the EP additive package. This makes MTXX products unsuited for use in a standard hypoid differentials. And yes, MT90 is the same viscosity as 75w90 gear oil.

Redline 75w90 is specifically a hypoid differential lubricant and is GL5 rated.

You NEVER want to use a hypoid gear oil in a manual transmission or transaxle. They EP additive will attack brass synchronizers and ruin them. It is important to note that there is NO BRASS in an X1/9 transmission. So why the "no EP additive" recommendation? Because the friction surface used on the synchronizers is also attacked by the EP additives. I have seen the results of this and it will ruin them.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Yes. GL4 without the EP additive package.

My point was to ask if both RedLine MT90 and RedLine MTL can be used effectively in the X's gearbox. I think you answered that, but just wanted to be clear we haven't misunderstood one another. Not that I'm recommending one of those two over the other, but I was thinking for those in other parts of the world finding it difficult to get MTL, then maybe the MT90 might be an option (if it happens to be available instead)?

 

[Janis]

I tried to look for alternatives Steve has mentioned, finding MTL was easier in nearby of Latvia.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

My point was to ask if both RedLine MT90 and RedLine MTL can be used effectively in the X's gearbox. I think you answered that, but just wanted to be clear we haven't misunderstood one another. Not that I'm recommending one of those two over the other, but I was thinking for those in other parts of the world finding it difficult to get MTL, then maybe the MT90 might be an option (if it happens to be available instead)?

Jeff, it is my opinion, based on extensive testing in street cars, track cars and dedicated racing cars, that MTL is the preferred fill for street cars and autocross cars. If the car is regularly used in track events (track days, HPDE, etc...) that MT90 is the preferred fill. Same for pure road racing applications, typically with the addition of an oil cooler.

Certainly, MT90 would work fine in your average street car but I have found that the slightly lighter weight of MTL is better for most street cars and certainly in cooler climates. Although the difference is so slight as to be inconsequential for most users.

I started using MTL in my street/autocross cars in the mid 1990s. It was 1996 that I got my first job in Pro Racing by a team that, by pure coincidence, was sponsored by Redline Oil. I ultimately advanced to the team engineer and that spawned a long relationship with Redline.

 

[GregS]

it is my opinion, based on extensive testing in street cars, track cars and dedicated racing cars, that MTL is the preferred fill for street cars and autocross cars. If the car is regularly used in track events (track days, HPDE, etc...) that MT90 is the preferred fill.

Steve, what is the reason for preferring MT90 for the track? Does the MTL overheat? I haven't seen this recommendation before, I just filled my 5 speed (with geared LSD) with MTL. Big track event this weekend.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Greg,

Viscosity recommendations are specific to climate and application. If you look at manufacturer's oil viscosity recommendations for engine oil they always recommend a lighter weight oil for colder climates and a higher viscosity for hotter climates. The same principle applies to gear oil.

Street cars typically don't see severe use over extended periods of time. And are typically expected to be functional on a cold morning as a hot afternoon. So the lighter weight oil is preferred in this application. A track or race car is not expected to be pushed hard until up to operating temperature. So the engine and transmission have time to warm up before being pushed hard and then high rpm at full load is maintained for the duration of the track session. So low temperature operation is not critical and high temperature performance is needed. Thus the higher viscosity is preferred in this application.

MTL is 75w85 and MT90 is 75w90. So there is little difference but the slightly higher viscosity of MTL is preferred for track events where higher operating temperatures are expected.

If I remember your car is a normally aspirated 1500? Do you know the specific rear wheel horsepower? Also, how long are your track sessions? If its making significantly over 100 HP at the wheels you will likely already be having transmission temperature issues in longer track sessions.

This car, a moderately tuned 1500/5 speed, would run a 20 minute track session in 90+ degree ambient temperature without issue. The car made about 90 HP and close to 100 lbs/ft of torque at the wheels.

 

[GregS]

Thanks Steve. Yes, 1500 NA, about 114hp and 95ftlbs at the wheels. 15 minute track sessions, 75 deg F this weekend.
I will check the trans temp on the weekend to see what it gets to, I was going to do that anyway because of the lsd in it now. What would be the highest temp you would be comfortable with using MTL?
Great shot of your X by the way.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Thanks Greg. I don't have many photos of the car. That one is one of my favorites.

Transmission oil temperatures are much like engine oil temperatures. 220 to 230F is about ideal. Upper end is about 250F. I wouldn't want to sustain 250 for an entire session. Also, the higher the temperature, the shorter the oil's life span. You can tell you got it hot if it comes out with a brown tint. I read transmission temperatures on my car with an infrared gun. Its quick and easy but the case temperature is going to be significantly less than the oil temp. Estimate a drop of about 50 degrees F. If the case is 200F then the oil is probably 250F.

Incidentally, you really want the oil over 200 degrees. That's where its designed to work and there is no value in running it cooler. In fact, if it never gets over 212F then it won't boil off the condensation and the oil will become water contaminated and varnish quickly.

If you ambient temps are 75F and your track session is 15 minutes in a car making 115 WHP, you are going to be fine. I wouldn't worry about it. Sure check it and add the data to your notebook but you'll be fine.

The SCCA Production class road race cars I have experience with here in the US typically run 30 to 45 minute races. And a good F or G class motor will make between 125 and 140 WHP. Running in 80+ degree F ambient temperatures we will see actual oil temperatures of more than 250. Thus these cars typically have a transmission oil cooler setup to keep temps under control. If not the bearings, shift forks and synchro/dogs will have a very short lifespan.

 

[DanielForest]

Thanks Greg. I don't have many photos of the car. That one is one of my favorites.

Seems like that angle is good on x19. Here is my favorite of my car... Sorry to derailed the thread's subject...