Hemmings slaps the X again...

As a '63 Midget owner and an X dailer driver, all I can say is they are totally different cars and not comparable. To do so is plain silly. Totally different "experience". Subjective. I LOVE driving through the countryside in the midget on a nice summer evening. I HATE trying to get someplace in it in bad weather, high traffic.
The X is a different car.
 
I did and posted this there:

http://jalopnik.com/5645633/does-the-fiat-brand-have-a-hope-in-hell-of-succeeding-in-north-america

Part of how FIAT might do in North America will depend on how good the cars actually are. While the new FIAT 500 has done well in the EU and else where, American's do not really like small cars, they generally like BIG cars with BIG engines.

FIAT will need to market their ability to deliver a quality small car that offers exceptional value.

FIAT must deal with the Automotive media that is bent on never allowing the, "Fix It Again Tony" totally un-reliable, rust heap reputation to die or every fall out of the motoring public mind.

Hemmings Sports & Exotic as a Q&A column titled, "Fix It Again Tony.." This is just one example of how the car media keeps the crappy cheap image of FIAT well and alive in North America.

I'm skeptical that FIAT can really make the North America car market work for them given their current offering, their past reputation, the anti-FIAT agenda of car journalist and media in North America and more...

This comes from a FIAT owner who still owns one to this day. Even if my perception and technical insight into what FIAT cars really are, they might still be very un-fit for American car owner's consumption.

It is worth noting that BMW, Honda, Toyota and others design and build cars specific to the North American ca market that could not be sold elsewhere in the world.. Like the Mercedes ML series, American Accord, Toyota Tundra and etc..

Historically, Americans do not like Italian cars in general, unless it is a "Ferrari".

They have a very difficult road to travel ahead...


Regarding the x1/9:

One correction is in order..

The x1/9 was never really a FIAT, it was designed mostly by Bertone with some technical help from FIAT, used FIAT mechanicals (128/Ritmo) and the bodies were built by Bertone from day one. Within two years of production, Bertone took over most all of it's production complete.

Mr. Bertone convinced Mr. Agnelli to build it while most of FIAT management despised it from day one and never wanted to produce it. Mr. Agnelli like the design and basically forced the car design upon FIAT's management.


http://jalopnik.com/5645633/does-the-fiat-brand-have-a-hope-in-hell-of-succeeding-in-north-america#



Kevin B (Asheville said:
Wait tillBernice see's the lates Jalopnik discussion of Corporate Fiat :eek:
Click to expand...
 
If this is honestly true, ask the folks who gave you the award, why are their writers at Hemmigs incapable of writing a proper article on the X1/9.

Yes, Karl Ludvigsen wrote an article on the X1/9 a while ago, but it was not well done and still has factual errors.

Hemmings has oops on just about every article written about Italian cars.

On the Pantara, they omitted a HUGE amount of interesting stuff like how it came to the US car market, both Dallara & Gandini were involved in it's design.

On the Lancia Stratos, it was even worst. Hemmings left out so much History about the car, the individuals involved, how Cesare Fiorio ran the Lancia team or wrote much about the individuals involved with the Stratos..

Hemmings does better at writing about Brit cars in general and has many more featured articles on them.. Basically, Hemmings is less than competent when writing about cars they are less familiar with.... Which is surprising since Karl Ludvigsen recently wrote a book about the Lancia Stratos... maybe this is their editorial goal to please their readership and advertisers.

Regardless, their writing and articles remain poor when compared to 1980's Road & Track and even a number of current magazines from Britain.

Bernice

abarth2litre said:
yet the editors had just given the X "Best Italian Car Award" at the Sat. event of their annual Concourse d' Elegance, over Ferrari's etc.
go fig.?:hmm:
Also I think Motor Trend (sensing the trend) is launching a classic car mag to compete with Sports and Exotic.
And Greg I know I invited you to meet us at F40 Motosports Oct 3 rd but ..we are gunna wait untill spring to meet Wayne.
Click to expand...
 
yes

Kevin B (Asheville said:
I believe you will find that the Mk1 MR2 has WAY more in common with the x than any other chassis.

<posted by someone who has raced a Mk1 MR2 in SCCA ITB>
Click to expand...

There are 2 major body changes in the MR2. The first one looked like a x1/9 it was small, but the second one looked more like a fiero it was bigger. The smaller one is NOT the one I was lucky enough to get a ride in.
 
Last edited:
The truth of the matter is that Hemmings can say anything they want, they have little to no influence on the general buying public. When the Fiat 500 hits major US cities and people start popping into showrooms, I can't see any of them changing their mind because of Hemmings op-eds. It is more likely they've never heard of the magazine.

Fiat should be do well with the Fiat 500. The Mini Cooper wasn't really designed for the US market and has done amazingly well. Even the Smart is well represented here on the streets of LA. Things have really changed in the US market, especially in the large cities. I don't like the Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, or Nissan Versa, but all three of those cars sell quite well in the US, and also were not designed for the US -- they were designed for (and often in) Europe.

I really do think Fiat/Chrysler are trying to do this right. If anything, I think the Fiat 500 has the potential of opening the flood-gates for future Fiats and then Alfa Romeos in 2012. It is an excellent halo car that people can actually afford. If we are a bit optimistic, Italian cars could be the next big thing in the US. I know many people are tired of the German and Japanese offerings. I know the South Korean cars are much better these days, but still pretty difficult to get passionate over.
 
I just read the November issue of Hemmings Sports and Classics...

....Looked to be pretty well balanced between Brit, Swedish, German and Italian cars. Feature article about SAAB 99s. Fun read. Also had a good multiple page article on the 850 Spider. The article about the Concours in Saratoga Springs had a small pic of Ron Gallos (Abarth2litre) X, but fails to mention his car in the Winners section of the awards, so they must have only listed a portion of the winners..
 
havn't seen it yet

They came over to tell us we won before the trophy's were given out. So they took the pic without the trophy.
But it would be nice to say best Italian Car.
Oh well maybe Cruella Deville is right?
But that still doesn't explain if "they are so anti X" why would the editors give the X the award over other Italian cars??
 
karhawk said:
ntHey Jimbo a 10 year old Miata won't run circles around our X!
Click to expand...

Two of my brothers both own Miatas... first generation... ones a '90 and the other is a '96 (I think) I've driven both of them (as well as several others). And although I enjoy driving my X much more than a Miata, there is no question in my mind that the Miata is a faster car... ...and its mostly because the engine has more HP and torque... If the X has any advantage in the twisties (maybe), its left in the dust on the straights... ...it would take a pretty tight road course to take that advantage away from the Mazda.

I'm talking about stock, un-modified cars here...
 
Indeed, they can write what ever they want, and... I can criticize all they write and support it with hard facts rather than publishing words from their mouth with no visible means of support.

Frankly, I'm NOT impressed with Hemmings as a automotive publication overall. Maybe it's been "watered-downed" too much for my expectations.. in their effort to appeal to their readership.

I will say this, I have magazine articles that date back to the introduction of the x1/9 in 1974.. Up to the ends of it's production, there were hardly any negative articles about the X, the vast majority were positive in many ways.. these articles pointed to how under powered the1300 cars were, but the fact is, there were many "sports cars" that were equally under powered. These articles wrote about the great packaging, chassis dynamics and all the things that make the X such a good design to this day. Fast forward to this current generation of auto journalist... Not one has written a similar article.. nearly every one has been a hatchet job..

Why?

Even when the X was never really a FIAT?

Why?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All that has happened with Hyundai is interesting.. they entered the US market with the Excel, basically designed by Ital Design (Hyundai has worked with Ital Design for a long time) about the same time as the Yugo. While the consumer magazines recommended the Hyundai, they wrote stay away from the Yugo, it just another FIAT. Time proved the Excel to be cheap, less than reliable, durable and rusty.. sound familiar?

No one knew how serious Hyundai was about the US car market at the time.. and they worked HARD at making their cars better in every way.. Today they are the fourth largest import brand in the US car market and the days of the Excel seems to be forgotten. None of this surprises me..as Hyundai has the resources to build many industrial items to most any standard and requirement. Heck they built that oil rig that sunk off the gulf coast..

Bernice

Bernice

ryan said:
The truth of the matter is that Hemmings can say anything they want, they have little to no influence on the general buying public. When the Fiat 500 hits major US cities and people start popping into showrooms, I can't see any of them changing their mind because of Hemmings op-eds. It is more likely they've never heard of the magazine.

If we are a bit optimistic, Italian cars could be the next big thing in the US. I know many people are tired of the German and Japanese offerings. I know the South Korean cars are much better these days, but still pretty difficult to get passionate over.
Click to expand...
 
You go ask then why.... and return with their answer.

Another recent example was ***** article on Matt..
IMO, another hatchet job and using Matt for their agenda.

Bernice

abarth2litre said:
They came over to tell us we won before the trophy's were given out. So they took the pic without the trophy.
But it would be nice to say best Italian Car.
Oh well maybe Cruella Deville is right?
But that still doesn't explain if "they are so anti X" why would the editors give the X the award over other Italian cars??
Click to expand...
 
OK just got my mag in mail so now I understand why

Broom Hilda questions the validity of our award??
First Tom, it is Sports and Exotics mag. I thought you were reading Hemmings Motor News. The pic of us in S and Exotic is at Saratoga N.Y., we won the Hemmings show in Stratton Vt. When we went to Saratoga the Editors / Judges said "didn't you win in VT.?" and we replied "yep" so we knew then that we were out.

Now, in addition to Saratoga pic. they did take a pic of the X in Vt. and the other Sat winners for Hemmings Motor News they have published the Sunday winners but as of yet the Sat show winners have yet to be published. I hope that clears it up and Bernice won't waterboard me or require a photo of the trophy. Hey now that I think about it we posted a pic of Ron Jr. and the second place Maserati with trophy. Bernice should spend less time sending angry letters to magazines and more time reading posts IMO

Now my 2 cents. I believe that the X will go up in value.. why? because I show ours at shows and cruises and the amount of viewers is quite good and very upbeat. Add to it the Car and Driver piece on Bayless ( yeah it coulda been better but every little bit helps good job Ohio!)

So instead of getting angry invest even more time in showing and polishing this wonderful car and the collector public will discover them. Additionally I don't know how many of you watch Chasing Classic Cars but Wayne has been eluding that he thinks that less expensive "under the radar cars" are gunna get picked up by collectors soon. Therefore I think he knows what he is talkin about and i would hope that some northeast X-er's would join us next spring at F 40 Motosports for coffe and cars.

So Rapunzel can get her very long hair in a tizzy and call credible mags. "rags" but that does not help the rest of us I.M.O.
Hey did she dis. the editors at Hemmings?? I hope they don't read this site.. Well if they ask I'll say " who? Bernice ? never heard of her."
:wink2:
One more thing
most of the pics in the mag are of cars that WON! and our X did not win that show
but they put it in their mag anyhow!
So let me see if I get this. They ( the editors) hate the X 1/9 so much they put a pic in their mag over 3 or 4 hundred other fine sports cars!
this contrived anti X bias is ridiculous! and unproductive
get real
I think Bernice is technically knowledgeable but she needs to sharpen up on her "street smarts"
 
Last edited:
Ron...Isn't it HEMMINGS Sport and Exotic Mag?

...geez...I've never picked up a Hemming Motor News. I guess you just assumed that. :blackeye:

Regarding the value of the X...you are new to the X world. I have only been around them pretty continuously for the past 25+ years. There have always been little blurbs here and there about these cars over the years. The value has stayed pretty solid over the decades. Anywhere from $500 to $5000 is what they've been selling for since the late '80's. Until I see people buying an X as an investment rather than as a cool, fun little car...I will hold onto the fact that even though some of us are putting $5K plus into our restoration/modifications...it's not very likely we will receive any return on investment...other than the smiles on our faces.
 
Tom Tom Tom

I refer to one as Hemmings and have for a very very long time (times were it and newspaper type autoweek were the only place to get a good deal on a decent car) the other is sports and Exotics.

Now history lesson when GTO ferrari's were hitting 18 Mill 427 vettes and Boss 429's were 30 grand and Austin Heally 3,000 and jag 120;s were much lower. Now those American Mucles are 200 grand and GTO Ferraris are less while MGB's are growing in val.

Listen don't sell your X WAIT! it will go up in value I promise.
mann! I need a Mai Tai. :drink:
 
Hemmings Motor News started out, like Autoweek as a news print publication, then eventually became a news print book with the light brown cover and eventually, the Hemmings folks diversified the offering with a magazine that covers American cars, and last Hemmings Sports & Exotic.. Where Craig F and that group hang out.

Of the current American automotive publications, Autoweek is one of the few I can read and not have a problem with their writers or what is written(most all of the time).

What I truly miss are the days when Road & Track had writers like Phil Hill, Paul Frère and others.

I do wonder if the readership has become less demanding of publications or are the publications writing articles that fit their readers? Or, is all this just another example of how America has become a bit less "literate" or reads less or has a much shorter attention span.

As for X1/9 market values, it's been 30 odd years that the X has been in my life in one way or another. Over all these years and regardless of what is published good or bad the market value of the exxe has hardly changed.

IMO, to think that this might change in the future is not realistic. While other "sports cars", "muscle cars" and other vehicles from that era has gone up, the exxe has not. I have stopped thinking about why anymore as I simply do not care about the market value or how the market perceives the exxe any more either. What does bother me is when some keyboard jockey does a hack job on the exxe or continue the crappy FIAT myth. It is very, very tiresome.

I simply would prefer these keyboard jockeys with a personal agenda keep their fingers off the keyboard when typing about FIAT or the exxe. If these keyboard jockeys do not have anything honest, truthful or good to say about FIAT and their older cars, don't. But, they cannot as the read ship and rubber necking value is too high and too attractive to ignore.. specially when FIAT is about to return to the US car market.

Bernice

bb4re said:
...geez...I've never picked up a Hemming Motor News. I guess you just assumed that. :blackeye:

Regarding the value of the X...you are new to the X world. I have only been around them pretty continuously for the past 25+ years. There have always been little blurbs here and there about these cars over the years. The value has stayed pretty solid over the decades. Anywhere from $500 to $5000 is what they've been selling for since the late '80's. Until I see people buying an X as an investment rather than as a cool, fun little car...I will hold onto the fact that even though some of us are putting $5K plus into our restoration/modifications...it's not very likely we will receive any return on investment...other than the smiles on our faces.
Click to expand...
 
its all a conspiracy

i just love conspiracy theories:thumbsup:
this thread makes me laugh

cheers
pete
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top