Oil pump priming

Dr.Jeff

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
What is a good method for priming the oil pump / circulating oil throughout the engine (e.g. prior to the first start-up on a SOHC engine that has sat for many years)? The ignition distributor cannot be spun due to the interface with the intermediate shaft. Perhaps remove the timing belt and spin the intermediate shaft? Thanks

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can't you just remove the spark plugs and hit the starter or are you worried about dry bearings throughout the motor? I find that unmolested Fiat motors that have sat for a long time will generate oil pressure much faster than Fiat motors I have rebuilt (with assembly lube).
 
Dr.Jeff said:
What is a good method for priming the oil pump / circulating oil throughout the engine (e.g. prior to the first start-up on a SOHC engine that has sat for many years)? The ignition distributor cannot be spun due to the interface with the intermediate shaft. Perhaps remove the timing belt and spin the intermediate shaft? Thanks

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That’s how I did mine. Timing belt off and a socket on the nut that holds the intermediate drive gear. Spin it with a drill.
 
ashmowerman said:
made from an old pump drive gear
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I have something like that for VW engines (with a different type of fitting on the end), but the oil pump drive on them can turn independently of the rest of the engine (drive gear comes out with the distributor). Seems like on the Fiat engine the auxiliary/intermediate shaft would prevent the oil pump from spinning. The drive gears that mesh between the aux shaft and the oil pump drive remain in place when the distributor is removed (see highlights on pics below). Are you able to lift out the drive gear through the distributor-shaft hole to allow the pump's shaft to turn independently? Or is the drive tool you made used while the engine is partially disassembled?

carl said:
remove the spark plugs and hit the starter
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I want to circulate oil through the engine before cranking it. It has been sitting for more then 14 years without the engine turning or serviced. I've drained the old oil (quite nasty stuff) and refilled plus a new filter, but prefer to push oil through everything for awhile to pre-lube and flush out any contaminants/debris initially. I'll do a complete oil flush after starting/warming up/running, and assuring everything is working properly.

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Rodger said:
That’s how I did mine. Timing belt off and a socket on the nut that holds the intermediate drive gear. Spin it with a drill.
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That sounds like the only way without removing the drive gear as I highlighted above. Although maybe there is a easy way to pull that gear out in order to use a drill driven tool like Ashley has?

I need to replace the timing belt anyway, but was hoping to be able to check-out the engine first. Frankly I don't even want to do a compression test before getting some oil circulated through it. If there are other issues then I'll pull the engine to take care of any needed repairs, and replacing the T-belt would be much easier then. But if everything checks-out good (which it should) then no reason to pull the engine.
 
If you have any sort of powered wrench (impact or ratchet, electric or air) just put a socket on the bolt and spin the aux shaft while the timing belt is off. Once you've pumped clean new oil through the entire system you're good. You need to have the distributor in place or have a distributor blanking plate installed.

If you're paranoid and you have a mechanical fuel pressure gauge you can hook it up to the port on the engine block and verify that you are building pressure.
 
Thanks Eric, sounds like to best approach. Although now I'm wondering if there is enough room to get the power driver or impact wrench in there while still mounted in the car. Guess I'll find out soon.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Thanks Eric, sounds like to best approach. Although now I'm wondering if there is enough room to get the power driver or impact wrench in there while still mounted in the car. Guess I'll find out soon.
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Hmmm.... yes, I wasn't thinking about that.... I've always had the engine on a stand when I wanted to prime.
 
Well it's a bit of work. But you can use an external pump to presureize the oil system.

I have seen some people setup a pre-start oil pump so you never start the motor without already having oil psi.
 
How difficult is it to lift out the drive gear (through the distributor's mount hole) and run a drill driven tool like AshMower's? Would there be any trick to getting the gear back in properly? I'm guessing the end of the tool is part number '4129982' on the diagram above?
 
Funny, I just Googled that part number to see its availability. First it is a bushing so likely not the correct item needed here. But what's funny is one of the first hits on Google is a company that sells parts for Yugos and Fiats. The exact same part number is listed in two places on their site; once for a Yugo and once for a X1/9. But the X1/9 price is twice the Yugo price...for the exact SAME part from the exact SAME seller on the exact SAME site. Sheesh.

So AshMower, what did you use to make the drive tool? The picture is not the tip of a distributor shaft. You said "pump drive gear", so part number '4194645' (which I guess is now '4310029') with the teeth ground off? Funny again, now the Yugo listing is 50% higher than the X1/9 listing.
Thanks
 
Dr.Jeff said:
How difficult is it to lift out the drive gear (through the distributor's mount hole) and run a drill driven tool like AshMower's? Would there be any trick to getting the gear back in properly? I'm guessing the end of the tool is part number '4129982' on the diagram above?
Click to expand...

To get mine out, I use a flexible pick up tool:

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Use a slight turn to get it back in.

I made it by machining the teeth off of an extra drive gear. (I used a carbide tools and small cuts, it is hard steel.) Grinding would work. I bored it to fit a collar holding 1/4 inch rod, held in with a drilled hole with a spring pin.

My engine has engine management and smart coils, so I do not have to remove the distributor to use it. Easy Peasie.

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Paul Davock
 
Thanks Paul. If I can't get a gun on the aux shaft then I'll look for a spare drive gear (anyone?).
 
no need to remove the oil pump drive gear, as long as you don't mind dropping the cam belt off for the job.

simply use an old distributor and strip the shaft out of it, cut it down to give yourself some room, and grind three flats on the end your going to grip with your drill chuck, if you get the length right and have a small or right angle head drill there is access thru the removable distributor cover... spin the cut down shaft with the belt off and in a few seconds you'll hear the drill load up as the oil pump begins pumping oil thru the system.

I usually prime the engine when it's on the stand before install, but with a small or right angle drill (I have an air powered right angle that does the job) it can be done in the car.

the oil pump gear can be removed in situ as this is part of a regular check I do, as the internal splines wear ... if they fail then the distributor can keep spinning and the oil pump doesn't...not a good scenario. I grip the inside spline of the gear with some expanding pliers and lift straight up, to refit you just need to rotate the aux shaft so the gear drops down into place as it meshes.

SteveC
 
Thanks Steve. And speaking of oil pumps...I recall you describing a oil pump from other models that is a direct fit in the X's SOHC block but with larger gears and a higher output. What is the part number for such a pump? Thanks.
 
I came up with a solution to be able to drive the oil pump and prime the lubrication system.

Unfortunately with the engine in the vehicle there is no room to drive the aux shaft directly (with the timing belt off). So the next approach was to drive the pump from the distributor side. But rather than pull the distributor and drive gear out and make an adapter from a old gear, I decided to approach it a little differently. By leaving the distributor in place and just removing the cap and rotor, I made a drive adapter that fits where the rotor would normally be. Effectively driving the distributor externally and therefore the oil pump. The timing belt still needs to be off the aux shaft sprocket so it can spin as well. But overall it is the easiest approach I could come up with.

To make the drive adapter for the distributor, I mimicked the way the rotor mounts onto the top of the distributor shaft. A 14 mm 6-point socket has the same ID as the rotor, and fits over the distributor shaft well. Naturally it still needs something to engage with the notch in the shaft, otherwise the socket will just spin on it. Using a spare socket I drilled a hole through its side wall and tapped it for a #10 screw (bolt). The shank of the screw is the width of the notch in the distributor shaft and engages with it to turn the shaft.

The only issue with retaining the distributor in place (while driving the oil pump) is the angle and height of it approaches the firewall. So there is not enough room to hold some type of power tool above it. This was easily overcome by using a "wobble" socket adapter (U-joint) and a cordless drill. The joint allows the drill to be held at a slight angle to clear the firewall. A hex drive bit with a 1/4" head is chucked in the drill to connect everything.

Here are some pictures to show how it all went together:

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A cheap/used 14 mm socket from a swap meet will work. But in a pinch the #10 screw could be removed and the socket is still usable. With a variable speed cordless drill the shaft can be turned gently at first, then increased to full speed once the oil begins to flow. I was also able to check the oil pressure at various speeds this way.
 
I never followed up on this.

The obvious problem with the distributor driven prime tool I made (last post) is the timing belt must be removed to do it that way. This was fine at the time because the belt was already off. But I wanted more options so I made a drive tool along the lines of the ones posted by other members. It is made from a spare distributor/oil pump drive gear, like the others. But instead of welding it to a shaft, I opted to weld it to a short bolt. That way I can use a socket and extension to drive it.

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I just wanted to bump this thread. I would like to do this myself and make the gear style adapter.

Possibly an important question, which direction do you spin the gear to prime the pump?
 
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