Rare parts and improvements X1/9

Dr.Jeff said:
I found by tilting the radiator rearward like this, it allows for a taller unit to be used. Comparing the VW radiator options, the smaller versions are about 12" tall...which is about the maximum that can be fit is the stock "forward tilt" position (and even then it sits a little low on the bottom). But with the "rearward tilt" position a 13-14" tall unit will easily fit and puts the bottom of it higher up for added ground clearance. This allows use of the much larger capacity 2-row rads from some Dasher/Passat models.

Seems like your modification to the air duct behind the radiator ("45 degree outlet") would work well with this rearward tilted mounting position. Any photos of that panel behind the rad?
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Your discovery is correct, although double raw might be too much for the water pump and frankly is not necessary. I thought about about this conversion 17 years ago when I had my second X1/9, but built it on my hand made Alpine A110 replica instead, which has similar front end bottom. I used radiator from Audi 1800cc Turbo.The reason I did what I did now is result of circumstances. My X got stollen and I found it a week later with a hole on the radiator and ordered aluminium replacement the same day from Vickauto. When I got it, I just made backside duct with the idea to "flatten" the boxy parachute area by reducing it's hight 4 inches and guide the air down/out around shorter and angled plane instead of tall and vertical. The other idea was to make everything reversible to original in minutes with no traces of the conversion. All this can be done even sleeker and easier
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if I have proper place to work on the car. But thanks for sharing.
 
jovani said:
For info on radiator mounting/shrouding, better call me 610 732 9306View attachment 6949
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Nice! I'll keep you number, thank you. I have a rad made by Howe Racing, with a modified stock lower brace. Shouldn't be too much work to shift the angle & redo the hoses. I'll call you about the duct work design. Always nice to have anothe project to consider. Mine will still see a temp rise under hard load/high speed, and heat soak when idling. Better air flow out the rad cavity would surely address these...
X19_0438.jpg


My fan shroud is designed to push the air through the fans

X19_0448.jpg
 
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lookforjoe said:
Nice! I'll keep you number, thank you. I have a rad made by Howe Racing, with a modified stock lower brace. Shouldn't be too much work to shift the angle & redo the hoses. I'll call you about the duct work design. Always nice to have anothe project to consider. Mine will still see a temp rise under hard load/high speed, and heat soak when idling. Better air flow out the rad cavity would surely address these...
X19_0438.jpg


My fan shroud is designed to push the air through the fans

X19_0448.jpg
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Shrouding is the correct way to use puller fans, but works best if fans are further away (back) from the radiator and the shroud is cone shaped to get advantage of the Venturi effect - entering the large area (the rad side of the shroud) the air kind of "wants" to continue toward the lower pressure smaller side of the coned shroud (where fans are mounted). In your case the shroud is too flat and actually restrictive for the natural airflow through the radiator and , unless the fans run, the air infront of the radiator will find the path of least resistance and at some speeds actually is forced to flow around the radiator (over and/or under the front of the car). UNLESS you make ALSO a coned airduct infront of the radiator, and that's exactly what I achieved by tilting the rad backwards. There is a lot more to say, but enough for now.
 
jovani said:
although double raw might be too much for the water pump and frankly is not necessary
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I get what you are saying, however it is a sealed system and the core's passages' size dictate the flow rate of fluid through the radiator. With added radiator capacity there will be a minuscule decrease in the system's flow rate, but nothing the water pump can't handle (provided it isn't in bad condition). Given the borderline function of the X's cooling system, when any performance upgrades are made to the engine it could use all the help it can get to maintain operating temperature. I agree, ideally the water pump would circulate the coolant at a greater system circulation rate but as far as I know there are no options for improved pump capacities (unless you remove the stock pump altogether and replace it with an electric system). So the factors that can be improved are: 1) the radiator's ability to remove heat (i.e increased capacity and improved air flow), and 2) the maximum engine temperature (thermostat temp selection). Within reason I don't believe there is such a thing as "too much radiator"; the thermostat will control the temperature of the engine so long as the radiator can remove the unwanted heat. It's usually more practical constraints (like space) that limit the size of the radiator; this is where your design with it tilted rearward offers a definite benefit to allow a greater capacity unit to fit the available space on the X.
 
I am kinda taken aback by the thought that the cooling system is borderline. They seem to do well, often working 30+years with few problems. quite a challenge, then when you add in the distance this little pump is pushing the water.. seems to be a fairly good system.

Now a borderline system, medium duty internationals (4700) large looking front grill.. Take the water radiator out. and it is not much bigger then our x1/9's have.

Anyway.. have a great day!
 
Rod, you live in Oregon. Try the same system in 115 degree heat with the AC on max and stop and go traffic all day.
 
jovani said:
Shrouding is the correct way to use puller fans, but works best if fans are further away (back) from the radiator and the shroud is cone shaped to get advantage of the Venturi effect - entering the large area (the rad side of the shroud) the air kind of "wants" to continue toward the lower pressure smaller side of the coned shroud (where fans are mounted). In your case the shroud is too flat and actually restrictive for the natural airflow through the radiator and , unless the fans run, the air infront of the radiator will find the path of least resistance and at some speeds actually is forced to flow around the radiator (over and/or under the front of the car). UNLESS you make ALSO a coned airduct infront of the radiator, and that's exactly what I achieved by tilting the rad backwards. There is a lot more to say, but enough for now.
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Yes, I understand. I did taper the shroud, but still shallow. Contemporary Volvo shrouds are also shallow, which is what my frame of reference is, but still deeper than the offset I made. With the rad tipped the other way, it should be manageable to work with a deeper shroud than I could fit in the stock configuration.

X19_0447.jpg
 
I was in PHX, AZ for collage and took my 79. over heating was never an issue. (though I did have a few day's where the temp gauge went up before I even started the car) (you know it is WAY to hot out when your car's temp gauge get's readings when you have not ran the car at all that day.
 
Rod, if you spent time in Phoenix then you know what I'm talking about here in Vegas.

And I must concede the cooling system is adequate for a stock vehicle when everything is in good condition and functioning properly. Although with performance modifications the management of temps becomes more difficult and the cooling system should be upgraded to match those modifications. In my case I'm thinking of possible future plans to add a turbo system, where heat levels increase significantly.
 
Another data point.

Back when the LeMons exxe ran a modified 1500cc SOHC Lampredi motor dyno_ed at 105-110 Whp, there was never an issue with the stock cooling system or over heating even when endurance racing in 100+ degreed F heat. Granted the racer was in near constant motion on track hour after hour, still cooing was just not a problem. Typical running temps were under 200 derees F. It is IMPERATIVE the stock cooling system is at or very, very near 100% anything less will cause cooling problems.

Over the decades, none of the exxe's used as a daily driver had cooling issues under any road-enviorment problems.


Cooling became a serious problem to deal with once the Mazda PP rotary went in. That problem got solved by adding a whopper sized oil cooler with the stock cooling system (oil and coolant must be no higher than 200 degreed F). Once this was done, the PP rotary could be run full till race pace hour after hour in over 100 degreed F heat no problem.

Bernice
 
Rupunzell said:
Another data point.

Back when the LeMons exxe ran a modified 1500cc SOHC Lampredi motor dyno_ed at 105-110 Whp, there was never an issue with the stock cooling system or over heating even when endurance racing in 100+ degreed F heat. Granted the racer was in near constant motion on track hour after hour, still cooing was just not a problem. Typical running temps were under 200 derees F. It is IMPERATIVE the stock cooling system is at or very, very near 100% anything less will cause cooling problems.

Over the decades, none of the exxe's used as a daily driver had cooling issues under any road-enviorment problems.


Cooling became a serious problem to deal with once the Mazda PP rotary went in. That problem got solved by adding a whopper sized oil cooler with the stock cooling system (oil and coolant must be no higher than 200 degreed F). Once this was done, the PP rotary could be run full till race pace hour after hour in over 100 degreed F heat no problem.

Bernice
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Not surprising regarding the oil cooler---my very first car was a bone stock 1973 Mazda RX-3 station wagon (the price was verrrry right for a 1-yr old car and I just had to have a rotary!). The top 2/3 of the factory radiator was for engine coolant, the bottom 1/3 was oil cooler. IIRC the factory spec for oil was 20w-50. Racing Beat (the top source at the time for aftermarket performance gear for Mazda rotaries) used to have a line of 3-4 different size oil coolers to choose from, as must-haves for hopped up rotaries.
 
@jovani - slightly off topic question - where did you get these turn signals? Are they early X1/9 ones or from another source? Thanks in advance!


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NEG said:
Scratch that they look a different shape to the OEM ones
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That's what I thought at first - then I thought, hmm... maybe these are Lada Niva ones? But these are slightly different as well. Either way, he integrated them nicely!

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myronx19 said:
maybe these are Lada Niva ones?
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I think so! I bought a set - $25 USD for the pair it was worth a shot... The pair were less than one euro lens.

Here's a size comparison. Top is the Lada Niva/210x, middle is a euro lens, bottom is the one from my '78. Lengths differ but heights are approximately the same.


Turn_signal_size_comparison.JPG


Roy
 
roys said:
I think so! I bought a set - $25 USD for the pair it was worth a shot... The pair were less than one euro lens.

Here's a size comparison. Top is the Lada Niva/210x, middle is a euro lens, bottom is the one from my '78. Lengths differ but heights are approximately the same.


View attachment 50165

Roy
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Did you fit them or you just got them to figure out if they would work?
 
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