Starting Issues

jvandyke

jvandyke

True Classic
Yesterday I bought an X, still can't believe it.
Today I spent crawling all over (and under) it.
After 18 hours or so on a charger the battery seemed flat, even with a jump from the minivan it wouldn't turn over the engine (with plugs out).
I brought it in, they said it only had 18 amps in it. I bought a new one.
Still no turn over.
I did my homework here and cleaned up grounds (battery to chassis and bell housing to chassis, I snapped the bolt off the bell housing and used a different empty hole for a new bolt, old strap but cleaned up ends.
I can get the engine to turn over after wrapping on the starter/solenoid.
It doesn't seem to disengage smoothly and the engine cranks for a second or two then I have to go wrap on it again.
So,
I don't understand the brown wire mod. I think I'm supposed to run another wire from the + terminal of the battery to somewhere on the fuse box but so far all I see is a rat's nest, block of relays and fuses and I haven't been able to figure out where to tie into that mess.
I pulled the lower cover of the steering column to look at the ignition switch, pulled the connector apart (brown, white blue/white/red I think, whatever comes out of the switch) Looked new and pretty to me.

So,
I guess I should go ahead and pull the starter? Clean it and the solenoid up and go from there?
Starter isn't the easiest to access but then again, I knew I was buying a midengine car....
 
Sounds like a bad starter

If you are getting action out of it only after clubbing it, it is not long for this world. I carried a hammer behind the seat in my 78 for a year till I finally caved in and replaced the starter. It is tedious, but not hard.

The BWM won't hurt, but I noticed you haven't mentioned what voltage you are reading at various locations. Have you tested the voltage at the starter or alternator to see what kind of continuity you have through the existing harness?

In the X, the power flows from the battery to the starter via the big green wire you see on the + terminal of the battery. Then there is a smaller wire that runs from the starter to the alternator. When you get into your starter project you will see there are two wires on the + lug for the starter.

So, there is a continuous electrical path that flows Battery->Starter->Alternator. If you put your multimeter across the battery terminals you should see around 12.5 volts or a bit more on good battery. Now go back to the engine bay and put your multimeter's + lead on the alternator's output lug and the - lead to any grounding point. If you have good continuity from the battery should see a slightly lower voltage reading (i.e. 12.3v or so). If it is way low, you may have bad connections or bad wiring.

The PO may have given up on it because it wouldn't start. Hopefully, other than that little issue, it will fire right up! :)
 
hi new Xhead

brown wire mod will not help you with the starter. take it out bring it your local parts store and have it bench tested if it works grate if not disassembling the solenoid and cleaning it up can get it working again .once you have a working starter in the car and it still won't start put direct power to the solenoid from the battery ( don't forget to fuse the the new power wire ) using a really . I used to have click click start than I put direct power from the battery using a relay starts right up no click click first crap.
oh have you turned the engine over by hand to make sure it's not frozen 11/2 inch socket on the bottom crank bolt works grate for turning it over by hand.
Good Luck
 
thanks for the replies guys.
I turned the engine over by putting it in gear, plugs out and shoving it, it moved. It has turned over via the starter too, just not consistently or well. I will pull the starter and see what up. Could be the starter was the icing on the cake for the PO. He didn't mention it but the fuse "panel" was open when I looked at the car.
This is chore one. Get it to turn over decently, then fuel and ignition.
PO claimed fuel tank varnished up was the big issue. I don't know, haven't gotten that far yet.
 
One other ground

Don't forget the body to the battery cable. I replace mine and what a difference. Easy to overlook. Congrats on the new baby!
Cheers,
Kyle
 
You mean the battery terminal to the "firewall" connection? I redid that, as in I took it off the car, cleaned scraped the connection point, smeared some dielectric grease on the area, cleaned all contact points on the cable, put a new star washer on. I didn't replace it though. Should I actually replace it? Do they corrode from the inside out? Everything on this car looks pretty good so far I'm pretty impressed, other than the rust that popped through on the body panels, it's rock solid. I just realized this thread is in the wrong forum. Sorry about that.
 
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Size matters.

If the size of the cable is too small it doesn't provide as good a ground. Don't know the proper terms but it should be large enough to handle the system. Typically the originals aren't thick enough. Take an extreme example (tiny wire) it just wouln't be sufficient. It should match the rest of the system. It's pretty wimpy if original.
 
JimD said:
So, there is a continuous electrical path that flows Battery->Starter->Alternator. If you put your multimeter across the battery terminals you should see around 12.5 volts or a bit more on good battery. Now go back to the engine bay and put your multimeter's + lead on the alternator's output lug and the - lead to any grounding point. If you have good continuity from the battery should see a slightly lower voltage reading (i.e. 12.3v or so). If it is way low, you may have bad connections or bad wiring.

The PO may have given up on it because it wouldn't start. Hopefully, other than that little issue, it will fire right up! :)
Click to expand...

13.25 at the battery, 13.2 at the alternator (brand new battery kept on trickle charge)
All I have to do is tap on the solenoid and I get a crank out of it, doesn't crank long though, sometimes will go again but usually I have to go tap again. I have not done this much as obviously it isn't "right".
So, maybe it's the solenoid that is sticky and drawing too many amps to allow for good turn over? Hopefully it isn't major engine issues holding the starter back. I will try to figure out how to drop the starter and I will clean up the solenoid contacts and starter guts and see what that does. Sound good?
 
Thread moved to Workshop Forum

This will help get more eyes on it.

You're getting good advice. Keep the plugs out for now, and keep working at it. Sometimes starters need some use before they will free up, but your plan of cleaning the insides is a good one, if you can figure it out.
 
Put the brown wire here....

jvandyke said:
I don't understand the brown wire mod. I think I'm supposed to run another wire from the + terminal of the battery to somewhere on the fuse box but so far all I see is a rat's nest, block of relays and fuses and I haven't been able to figure out where to tie into that mess.
Click to expand...

If you have a later model electrical harness, put the ADDITIONAL brown wire from the battery to here:
(located at the lower left side of your fuse panel)

fuseboxbposjb1.jpg


If you have the older style harness, there's a large white connector with 10Ga brown wires attached with a SPARE unused tie point.
Get a spade terminal (large type available at most auto parts stores) and plug into the spare outlet.
This essentially doubles the current-carrying capacity of your X. Cost is a couple bucks.
Don't forget to change your ground lug (from your battery ground post to the chassis) with a new 4Ga 10" long ground terminal. Most auto stores have them for $5.

Good luck!
 
BWM

brown wire mod will not help you with the starter.
Click to expand...

I agree it won't help with the starter which is fed directly from the battery. The starter solenoid is fed through the ignition swith and thus the brown wire between the battery and the fuse box, so the BWM might still help.
 
One thing to try

It sounds like you have a bad starter, but one last thing to try is jumping the solenoid spade terminal to the main bolt where the big wires attach. That will give the solenoid full voltage. If it cranks well that way, it's a problem with the spade connector circuit. If it doesn't, it's definitely the starter itself.

Be CAREFUL you don't get whatever you use to do this test between the bolt and ground or many sparks will fly.
 
I don't see how you could do that. I can't even see the mounting bolts for the starter let alone jump anything down there. I'm going to do the brown wire mod. and the ground wire upgrade even if they aren't directly involved in this issue. I will have to man up and have at that starter, dang that dude is buried in there. Nice baptism into X-ership eh? Starter pull the first weekend? Car is kick butt though, really really solid. So long as it doesn't have catastrophic engine issues I'm about ready to declare a major score.
 
Yes, one of those should be empty.

The plug pulls out easily. Check the quality of the connections while your at it.
 
Did you know...

Go through the access behind the spare tire. You know about this? There's also one in the rear trunk under the firewall carpeting and insulation.
 
Learning curve...

... is sometimes steep with the X. In time you will know all the secrets and divulge advice to newbies yourself.
 
I'm grateful for the input. Access panel helps a little, now I know how to get at the dizzy anyway. I loosend and retightened the cables at the solenoid. No difference. Got one partial turn over and that's it. I think that starter needs to come out. I need to look up the procedure for that. Won't be tonight anymore.
 
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