The Tale of Sears Pointless, March 2010

[cmice]

Thanks!!

Thanks for taking the time to edit and post, icemang! Very cool!

At 6:30 in pt2, you get a side-by-side of the Fiat vs. the Belvedere. I'm telling ya, that's a real gut-check moment going by that thing. Look at the *size* of it compared to the little Fiat. Wooo-hoo!

Was great racing, indeed. Great track, Sears. A lot of fast cars turning up now.

As stated, May is a little soon to go racing again. August is more likely at this point. Would be cool to check out the test-and-tune. I'll pencil it on the calendar.

l8r!
Chris (aka Stallions Team Captain Type Guy)

 

[Black-Tooth]

Brian... thanks... and...

Welcome to our site...

You express a truly righteous competitive nature... with equal parts of appreciation and respect. I'd venture to say that this kind of thing is found a lot in the LeMon's series, and is refreshing to hear and see.

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more from you.

 

[Rupunzell]

Welcome to the Italian X family Brian..

Thanks for posting the videos.. fun to watch. It's different from watching this un-fold from the stands.

There is a story behind the Porsche 928 and LeMons X..

Friend Nicole is a long time Porsche 928 owner, Rennlist participant and numerious other Porsche events. She told me one day that a team will be running a 928 at LeMons, I told her that LeMons racing is not the cheap heap Grand Prix, demo-derby that many might believe, it's serious racing on every level. I also told Nicole that unless something is done to address the engine oil problems designed into the 928, it's likely going to grenade the engine at LeMons.. First LeMons race at Thunder Hill the 928 did grenade the engine. Con rod bearings# 2 & 6 failed which where this problem usually happens.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1BlKelA3M"]YouTube- Lemons 928 rod bearing DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/ame]

The drivers also got a lesson in what not to do at LeMons, passing under yellow, going off with any wheels, making any contact with other cars and etc.. This is all part of the driver learning curve at LeMons..

Nicole also told the 928 folks to be on the look out for that x1/9, it's well prepped and fast..

At Sears Pointless, the 928 folks learned well, the drivers did very well and the engine survived (gotta wonder what was done). The 928 did suffer a thermostat that as not properly installed which caused the engine to over heat. This cost them time to correct the problem.

BTW, I was told the LeMons 928 pulls just over 1.2G on a corner... and the X generates higher cornering forces than 1.2G..

Some LeMons race cars are faster and better race cars than most would believe. LeMons is the most FUN for your race dollars spent which is why LeMons is the fastest growing Motor Sports event in America.

Bernice

Guys....let me introduce myself..... I'm Brian, a fellow car nut and owner-driver of the "Evil Genius Porsche 928" that races with the Italian Stallions in Lemons!!!

 

[icemang17]

Welcome to our site...

You express a truly righteous competitive nature... with equal parts of appreciation and respect. I'd venture to say that this kind of thing is found a lot in the LeMon's series, and is refreshing to hear and see.

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more from you.

Bottom line is lemons is FUN...big time..... and I look around the paddock for teams that are fast and "get it"...your team does both!!

We had issues in our 1st race (blown engine is one) and we learned from it.......in this race our lack of a good theme really hurt us...with a 40 lap penalty.... Its all about learning from your mistakes and moving forward...that's what we will do for the next one....

 

[icemang17]

Welcome to the Italian X family Brian..

Thanks for posting the videos.. fun to watch. It's different from watching this un-fold from the stands.

There is a story behind the Porsche 928 and LeMons X..

Friend Nicole is a long time Porsche 928 owner, Rennlist participant and numerious other Porsche events. She told me one day that a team will be running a 928 at LeMons, I told her that LeMons racing is not the cheap heap Grand Prix, demo-derby that many might believe, it's serious racing on every level. I also told Nicole that unless something is done to address the engine oil problems designed into the 928, it's likely going to grenade the engine at LeMons.. First LeMons race at Thunder Hill the 928 did grenade the engine. Con rod bearings# 2 & 6 failed which where this problem usually happens.
YouTube- Lemons 928 rod bearing DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The drivers also got a lesson in what not to do at LeMons, passing under yellow, going off with any wheels, making any contact with other cars and etc.. This is all part of the driver learning curve at LeMons..

Nicole also told the 928 folks to be on the look out for that x1/9, it's well prepped and fast..

At Sears Pointless, the 928 folks learned well, the drivers did very well and the engine survived (gotta wonder what was done). The 928 did suffer a thermostat that as not properly installed which caused the engine to over heat. This cost them time to correct the problem.

BTW, I was told the LeMons 928 pulls just over 1.2G on a corner... and the X generates higher cornering forces than 1.2G..

Some LeMons race cars are faster and better race cars than most would believe. LeMons is the most FUN for your race dollars spent which is why LeMons is the fastest growing Motor Sports event in America.

Bernice

Bernice
Nicole was at the race on Saturday...did you get a change to talk to her? I've known Nicole for years and she is a great person!!! Her 928 is very nice as well.... I used to have a "nice" 928...but now I have to settle for the lemons racer!!!

You are VERY knowledgeable about 928's....their oiling issues are substantial to say the least....& I am VERY pleased at our low cost solution to fixing the issues!! Oddly enough we "retrograded" the oil pan to the early (1978-82) design that just works much better.... After 18 hours of racing time on the oil (amsoil racing 15-50) the analysis came back nearly perfect....temps were fine and I didn't notice any significant pressure drops.....plus we don't even run an oil cooler!! What really sucks about 928's as they "evolved" is Porsche took out little design things here and there as cost saving measures...& it ended up KILLING many 928's of later designs...oil pan is 1 the other is removing the forward circlip on the torque tube that limits forward pressure on the crank..which eventually eats the thrust bearing and kills the engine... both probably saved Porsche a little $$ but cost owners ENGINES later on!!

How do you keep oil pressure in the X....it must be a wetsump...but how do you keep it from starving out in the corners? We were seeing lateral G forces approaching 1.3g and consistently over 1.15g... With real R comps the forces jump to nearly 1.5g

 

[cmice]

Oil pressure

Sheet metal windage tray, copied from a pretty popular design by PBS. And a high pressure oil pressure spring - probably 100psi at full bark.

Wonder how long the oil pump will last? Is the pump that came with the car, and it's got 4 races plus lots of track days on it.

 

[Rupunzell]

What I know about the oil problems in the Porsche 928 came via a discussion with an individual who was working on trying to solve it.

The problems are related to oil aeration partly due to the oil drain back from the cylinder head to the sump. For what ever reason, Porsche designed this V8 with the drain back exit ports directly at the crank which churns the oil returning to the sump. Adding to the problem, these ports are too small causing oil to collect in the cylinder head and insufficient crank case ventilation which pressurized the crank case adding to the drain back problem. Then we have the oil passage problem as you noted. These problems become severe as engine RPM increases which is why most of these Porsche V8's run much above 6,000 RPM have bottom end failures. Once these problem are solved effectively, these are pretty robust engines. Some Porsche folks will never believe these problem could be designed into a Porsche.. as if Porsche could do no wrong.

This FIAT engine started out life as a engine designed for low cost small displacement race engine for FIAT. They wanted to get back into racing and dominate 1300cc racing.. When Lampredi (ex Ferrari engine designer) designed this engine back in the day, he got many aspects of this design correct including the oiling system. Other than increasing the oil pressure and a windage tray, that is it. There are no oil drain back problems, oil passage feed problems to any parts of the bottom end and etc.. Lampredi's design simply works. This is where FIAT spent their production dollars and not the trim, interior and etc where many car owners perceive the quality of the car.

You are VERY knowledgeable about 928's....their oiling issues are substantial to say the least....& I am VERY pleased at our low cost solution to fixing the issues!! Oddly enough we "retrograded" the oil pan to the early (1978-82) design that just works much better.... After 18 hours of racing time on the oil (amsoil racing 15-50) the analysis came back nearly perfect....temps were fine and I didn't notice any significant pressure drops.....plus we don't even run an oil cooler!! What really sucks about 928's as they "evolved" is Porsche took out little design things here and there as cost saving measures...& it ended up KILLING many 928's of later designs...oil pan is 1 the other is removing the forward circlip on the torque tube that limits forward pressure on the crank..which eventually eats the thrust bearing and kills the engine... both probably saved Porsche a little $$ but cost owners ENGINES later on!!

How do you keep oil pressure in the X....it must be a wetsump...but how do you keep it from starving out in the corners? We were seeing lateral G forces approaching 1.3g and consistently over 1.15g... With real R comps the forces jump to nearly 1.5g

 

[icemang17]

The 928 also reaches 100+ psi oil pressure...... its supposed to be 1 bar per 1k rpms but ours is consistently above that......

It sounds like the Fiat engine is very well designed! You can fix the 928's oiling problems....but they all cost $$$$.....so the cost effective way of fixing it is changing the sump and keeping the RPM's under 6000....