Wheel lug bolts for alloy vs steel wheels

[Mark_Toro]

First thread start for me.

I am considering an X1/9 that has completely destroyed tires on stock 13" steel wheels. I have some 4 on 98 alloys with good tires from my Alfettas that will make moving it a lot easier. Curious if I will need longer lug bolts to mount the alloy wheels? I'm not planning to drive the car on this set up, just make it easier to load on a trailer.

Or another way to ask the question - how thick of a wheel will the stock lug bolts mount?

Thanks
Mark

 

[Dr.Jeff]

First thread start for me.

Curious if I will need longer lug bolts to mount the alloy wheels? I'm not planning to drive the car on this set up, just make it easier to load on a trailer.

It might depend on the specific alloys, and how thick the mounting holes are. Also the type of bolt heads the alloys use. But if it only to push the car onto a trailer then I would not worry about how many threads you engage - if they will engage at all. Hell, just take some regular bolts to hold the wheels on if needed. Two per wheel is more than enough for your purpose.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Looking on MW Bayless and there are obviously several lengths available. I don't want to chew up the alloy wheels with a standard bolt if I can help it.

If all the plans come together, I'll probably just get a set of longer ones in case. I'll be working far from home - better to have than to need.

 

[fastx19]

As people have already said, it kind of depends. I have seen where longer bolts are preferable vs. steel, and if I remember right the steel ones have a different angle on the head as well. Personally most of the steel lugnuts while long, gave me only about 4 to 6 threads of engagement. Not something I would aggressively drive on but would use to push around the garage.

Offset of the rims might be more of an issue for you, and then you will probably need much longer bolts as a spacer(s) may be required.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Thanks guys. I certainly will let you know how it progresses. Hoping that it all comes together, but at the same time I really don't need another project - kinda catching them when I can and storing them away for retirement.

 

[Steve Thomas]

Thanks guys. I certainly will let you know how it progresses. Hoping that it all comes together, but at the same time I really don't need another project - kinda catching them when I can and storing them away for retirement.

and be careful - if the bolts are too LONG they will protrude enough to phyiscally hit stuff behind the hun flange and the wheels will not turn at all. This pops up often.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Thanks for the warning.

I'll be learning a lot.

 

[carl]

Take one of your steel wheel bolts and put it in place on the Alfa wheels and see how far they protrude out the back mounting pad of the wheel. That will give you an idea of how far it will engage into the hub. You can also unbolt the factory wheel spacers for this to gain a little more engagement.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Excellent - learning a little more each day. There are factory spacers that could be removed to help with engagement.

The car is currently 500+ miles away - trying to plan ahead so that I don't show up unprepared

 

[Ernie]

Be aware those bolts holding the spacers in place are usually very difficult to remove due to the likelihood of them being there for the up til now life of the car.

Maybe simplify this long distance task by just leaving home with the longer, factory alloy wheel, lug bolts.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Ernie - I think that sounds practical. Are the bolts that hold the spacers on phillips head, like a rotor retention screw? I can bring my impact screwdriver and hammer.

Of course you realise I will get there and the brakes will be completely seized to the rotors and the wheels won't roll anyway. Or the column lock won't let the front wheels turn to get it pointed up on the trailer (they have coumn locks?). Or the current lug bolts will be rusted solid - or rounded. - always an adventure!

 

[Ics19]

Are the bolts that hold the spacers on phillips head, like a rotor retention screw?

No, they're like this from the factory, but yours may vary Even though they're M8 thread, the a/f spanner size is 12mm not 13mm. You may find one (or both!) have been replaced by a regular setscrew, so that could be a 13mm head

X1/9 Wheel Locating Stud : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) X1/9 Wheel Locating Stud - Longer thread style wheel aligning stud for securing the wheel spacer and brake disc to hub. Two required per wheel. Also applicable to Lancia Beta Scorpion and Montecarlo S1 & S2.

www.eurosport-uk.net

 

[Ics19]

leaving home with the longer, factory alloy wheel, lug bolts

The stock bolts protrude about 21-22mm through the alloys depending on type e.g. CD58, pepperpots etc. The spacer + disc + hub depth is maybe 22.5mm, and you can get another 1.5mm before you hit the carrier upright. Beware though, as I've seen some hubs where they're not fully threaded (or maybe just badly rusted up?) and trying to force a longer bolt through will chew it's end thread, such that when it's undone it will then chew the thread in the hub

 

[rx1900]

First thread start for me.

I am considering an X1/9 that has completely destroyed tires on stock 13" steel wheels. I have some 4 on 98 alloys with good tires from my Alfettas that will make moving it a lot easier. Curious if I will need longer lug bolts to mount the alloy wheels? I'm not planning to drive the car on this set up, just make it easier to load on a trailer.

Or another way to ask the question - how thick of a wheel will the stock lug bolts mount?

Thanks
Mark

Be careful here ! Yes, depending on the wheel, you will likely indeed need some longer bolts. You gotta be real careful here. Use a bolt too long and the wheel wont turn. Use a bolt too short and you run the risk of only a few threads engaging and tightening them will strip out the first few threads and ruining the hubs !!

And...more critically....most Alfetta wheels are 14" with a high offset ( around 40mm ) with quite large tires. And thus will hit the spring perches on the struts. So the wheels perhaps wont rotate even enough for trailering !! Yes...Alfetts wheels can be made to fit on an X1/9 with the proper spacers...but leave that for later...

Suggest in your case you try to just borrow a "known to fit" set of wheels and tires and bolts from someone for the trip....

 

[Mark_Toro]

OK. Boy things are never as simple as it seems from a distance. I'll need to pack:

Longer lug bolts
Alfetta wheels (14X6) I'll check the offset.
A good bunch of heavy washers to stack under the wheel if it hits the spring perch
Battery powered angle grinder w/ cutoff wheel to dispatch the offending spacer retainer / wheel locator pin. (also can be used to shorten the long wheel lugs if needed)

I appreciate all the insight!

 

[MikeHynes]

No, they're like this from the factory, but yours may vary Even though they're M8 thread, the a/f spanner size is 12mm not 13mm. You may find one (or both!) have been replaced by a regular setscrew, so that could be a 13mm head

X1/9 Wheel Locating Stud : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) X1/9 Wheel Locating Stud - Longer thread style wheel aligning stud for securing the wheel spacer and brake disc to hub. Two required per wheel. Also applicable to Lancia Beta Scorpion and Montecarlo S1 & S2.

www.eurosport-uk.net

Be careful that the hold down bolts don't foul the non Fiat wheels. Not all wheels are designed to accommodate those stock Fiat "hold the spacer/rotor onto the hub bolts/pins". If you run into that problem you could bevel out the holes in the spacer and use flush fit "special" allen head screws.

https://www.amazon.com/M8-1-25-Socket-Screws-Countersunk-Threaded/dp/B085XTYTJB/ref=asc_df_B085XTYTJB&mcid=7d5e6d1af3ed395cbd73a3ae61cf2d8a?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79989562814461&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583589111733402&th=1

Or, you could just leave the bolts off, especially if you replace the lug bolts with studs!

 

[Steve Thomas]

Surely somebody lives near enough to just loan this guy a set of X slave wheels? I have a set he could use, but, I am in Australia..

 

[Mark_Toro]

I'm in Nebraska. Where Italian car guys need to be resourceful!

I'm hoping all this planning comes together so that I can tell you all a cool story about how easy the trip went (or maybe I won't lie)

 

[rx1900]

Or the column lock won't let the front wheels turn to get it pointed up on the trailer (they have coumn locks?).

Yes....all X1/9s have steering column locks !! That requires the ignition key to be turned or else the steering wont turn. so..if this X does not come with an ignition key ( ? )......you WILL have to deal with that Can be defeated if you are prepared for that....

Basically.....the ignition switch assembly is bolted onto to the steering column with two bolts. See this pic below after the plastic shrouds are removed - a few phillips screws.

From the factory.....these are special bolts with breakaway heads. Like the bolt on the left. When this bolt is tightened enough, the head snaps off leaving it like the bolt on the right side. This of course is an anti-theft measure so the whole ignition switch/column lock assembly just cant be unbolted.

If you are lucky....and the switch has been changed before.....( new switches come with new bolts like the left one ) and the guy who changed it did not snap off the heads ( of course both bolts should look like the right one in the pic ).....you can just unbolt it and the steering will be unlocked.

But...if both bolt heads have had the heads snapped off....Usual solution is to use a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut a slot in the remaining head of the bolt...and use an impact screwdriver to loosen it.

So be prepared for that......

Alfetta wheels (14X6) I'll check the offset.

Yes...if you insist on trying to use your alfetta wheels...at least check their offset now. Many european wheels of that vintage have the offset cast into them somewhere...usually on the back side of one of the spokes. Look for something like E40. Which denotes an offset of 40mm. I think most factory type Alfetta wheels have an offset about that. Which is bad as for sure they will hit the spring perches !. I have seen some alfetta wheels - mostly aftermarket - with an offset of 20 or 22mm - that is good and they will likely clear.

If....your alfetta wheels are not marked with the offset...suggest you measure it. Pretty easy to do. Let me know if you need help with that.

 

[fastx19]

Look online or at the junk yard for a set of Fiat 500 steelies. You can usually fit a set of these on in a pinch and can be had for pretty cheap. Otherwise, someone closer to you probably has a set you could borrow for a bit. I do, but Houston is a ways away.