Longitudinal
True Classic
Do you know if the Lancia 5-speed fits anywhere as well as the Fiat unit does?
I got curious and did some googling. It led me back to XWeb, where I found this:
That's apparently a DOHC swap in an X. Ouch.
Do you know if the Lancia 5-speed fits anywhere as well as the Fiat unit does?
Since the Scorpion was designed to have the Fiat 130 V6 prior to the fuel crisis it was designed with plenty of engine compartment space.
Funny you should mention the 07K-- we had one of those lying here, with the MT for it. I assumed it was a lot bigger than the Twin-Cam's gearbox but that's easy to check. I'll be back week after next. I'll check back in once I"m back. Thanks for all the great ideas.You're welcome any time.
GTS is Celica GTS? I don't know F23 and F40, except the obvious F40, and I know you don't have one of those transmissions.
Yeah, it seems that FIAT did a great job of building the SOHC transmissions to fit that notch in the body. Most any other trans is going to require some cutting on the left side unless the engine is narrow enough to allow the trans to move far enough right to clear the rail.
The engine block is a simpler shape that, due to its height, is going to have to fit beside the rail without penetrating into it. But it's still a factor because it pushes the transmission to the left in order to fit. Given the same trans width, I think it would be a struggle to fit an engine any wider than a K20 into an X. One member here has a plan to install a 07K VW engine (late model I5) into an X. The VW 02M trans that would mount to that engine is compact, maybe compact enough to make it work without extensive cutting. We shall see...
Regarding the Lancia box for the twin cam, I don't think it would fit any better than a Honda trans. They're pretty bulky compared to the slim little SOHC unit. I would like to think that all of that bulk brings strength, but I don't know how good the twin cam unit is. As I said somewhere above, not knowing how strong the trans is has always kept me away from the DOHC engines. The DOHC engine really is a strong engine with a pretty good cylinder head for its time, but I would be afraid to build something powerful then not be able to keep a transmission together. Regarding as a whole a DOHC swap into an X, I don't think it would be any easier or more natural than any other non-native swap. A miss is as good as a mile, and all of the mounting fixtures and locations are different. As many have surely said before (including me,) I really wish that FIAT had just built the X with the DOHC engine in the first case. I can't see it costing THAT much more, and it would have made the X a wholly different car with a lot more performance and potential as built. It's not that the SOHC engine can't be made to perform, but the DOHC would have done everything better and made it more of the "baby Ferrari" that was advertised.
I'd seen that one. Wasn't sure how much surgery was *ahem* necessary, but it looked like the patient lived.I got curious and did some googling. It led me back to XWeb, where I found this:
That's apparently a DOHC swap in an X. Ouch.
I really wish that FIAT had just built the X with the DOHC engine in the first case. I can't see it costing THAT much more, and it would have made the X a wholly different car with a lot more performance and potential as built. It's not that the SOHC engine can't be made to perform, but the DOHC would have done everything better and made it more of the "baby Ferrari" that was advertised.
Well, as I continue to bid on his wonderful car, I'm absorbing all the knowledge here with great enthusiasm. So, please don't feel too bad.First off...I feel bad this discussion has veered away considerably from Gerald's fine Zagato....as often seems to happen here....
Your statement about wishing the X had come with the DOHC in the first place......was NEVER going to happen !!!
So, please don't feel too bad.
Thanks for all that color.
As it happens, I have another rust-free X swap candidate in the shop and we're busily scratching our heads because the gearbox is clearly the limiting factor on putting a non-Fiat transmission in there. Until we had the single-cam and transaxle out of that Bertone? No clue. I guess I'd never realized how the unique shape of the 1300/1500-transaxle combo allowed it to fit in there so neatly. And, Honda and GTS and F23 and F40 gearboxes don't appear to fit very well at all. The engine block's the least of the problem, to our eye. But getting the trans to fit? Big issue.
I'd guess tthe end of the Honda box would be really jammed into that fender well on the driver's side.
I'm in the middle of another project right now, but may hit you up sometime about help on that X. It's a nice car, but none of our great ideas fit. Do you know if the Lancia 5-speed fits anywhere as well as the Fiat unit does?
Thanks!
It's out at the shop. I'll post when I'm out there, because I'm curious now. It's hard to imagine any other transmission design "accidentally" being that narrow-in-just-the-right-way shape of the original Fiat box. I really didn't "get it" until we had it out on the pallet. It's quite striking.As for that VW 5 cyl engine and tranny....i'd like to see the combined length of that.......
. It's hard to imagine any other transmission design "accidentally" being that narrow-in-just-the-right-way shape of the original Fiat box.
It's out at the shop. I'll post when I'm out there, because I'm curious now.
As for that VW 5 cyl engine and tranny....i'd like to see the combined length of that.......
As for that VW 5 cyl engine and tranny....i'd like to see the combined length of that.......
and a rear timing chain.
But the pure GrB rallycar sounds are worth it.That AAN engine would blow the engine length budget to smithereens!
Just curious...do you recall the length of a K20 engine and tranny ?? Is the Acura 6 speed any longer or bigger than the 5 speed ??But I doubt that the trans is more than 2" shorter in length than a K20 trans, and I guarantee that the engine is at least that much longer than a K. It would have to be a very tight fit.
A REAR timing chain ?? That must be fun to change........
Just curious...do you recall the length of a K20 engine and tranny ?? Is the Acura 6 speed any longer or bigger than the 5 speed ??