Roobus's K20A2-Powered LBZ on BaT

Bryce-o-rama said:
There are people fitting the F40 up to the transverse LS that they used to put in the Impala.
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It's a robust design. I've often wondered about the LS4's compatibility-- the bolt pattern should be correct.
Do you have any links? I'd assume the mid-engine kit-car community would love that combo. IIRC the tasty LSx head combos should bolt right to the LS4 block.
 
Santa Barbarian said:
It's a robust design. I've often wondered about the LS4's compatibility-- the bolt pattern should be correct.
Do you have any links? I'd assume the mid-engine kit-car community would love that combo. IIRC the tasty LSx head combos should bolt right to the LS4 block.
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LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru

I am far from the first to install an LS4 into a Fiero and have used the following threads for reference material: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000087.html http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000114.html http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html...
www.fiero.nl



Starter mount for LS4 with FWD F40 6 speed manual transmission - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

LS4 Performance - Starter mount for LS4 with FWD F40 6 speed manual transmission - One step closer to running a manual transmission with the LS4... Here is my bolt on starter mount that retains the stock LS4 starter in the stock location... just need to cut up the F40 case to make it fit....
ls1tech.com
 
Bryce-o-rama said:

LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru

I am far from the first to install an LS4 into a Fiero and have used the following threads for reference material: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000087.html http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000114.html http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html...
www.fiero.nl



Starter mount for LS4 with FWD F40 6 speed manual transmission - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

LS4 Performance - Starter mount for LS4 with FWD F40 6 speed manual transmission - One step closer to running a manual transmission with the LS4... Here is my bolt on starter mount that retains the stock LS4 starter in the stock location... just need to cut up the F40 case to make it fit....
ls1tech.com
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Hey, thanks a bunch!

Yeah, I bet the starter is a bit of a challenge-- The Impala SS and Monte SS "moved" it to the other side. Nice to see people taking it on though.
 
Longitudinal said:
I'm almost positive that the 07K was not an option in the Passat. As far as I know, VAG never turned the 07K longitudinal. Look at my screenname. I would have known. :) For me and my automotive activities back then, it sure would have been nice if they had.

Passats (longitudinal post-B4 ones) got 1.8Ts, 2.0Ts, 30V V6s, 30v TT v6S.
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Late Passats are not longitudinal. They have been east west since 2007. The current Passat has the 5 cylinder from 2012 to 2015 models when the four cylinders again became the standard with a VR6 being an option (rare cars).

The Tiguan has always been east west as they are based on the Golf Plus chassis originally and now the MBQ platform. The Touareg was longitudinal and shared its chassis with Porsche.
 
Bryce-o-rama said:
There are people fitting the F40 up to the transverse LS that they used to put in the Impala.
Click to expand...
There was a swap using the Ecotec with GM transmission. Unfortunately the person who did the swap would periodically delete all of his content for unknown reasons. The car turned out amazing. The remnants of the thread are in the Best Of Xweb BOX under Engine Swaps. I may have a few of the pics saved on my computer.
 
Longitudinal said:
My understanding is that GM gave the LS4 the 60 degree bell housing pattern.
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It's based on the "New GM Corporate" pattern, but there's some elements of "Northstar" and "Ecotec2"... and a wisp of "Atlas".
Having said that, the ready availability of "High Value V6 " and "High Feature V6" driveline parts does help on the parts bin side.
The transverse layout forced the move of the starter-- but there's a number of clutch/flywheel combos that work.

I'd think the earlier Pontiac G6 flavor would work best overall
 
kmead said:
Just shoot it. The freaking Germans, jeez
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"Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we must do that thing."

I just can't figure out what it was supposed to accomplish. And to make matters worth, the original followers are said to be prone to failure. This is why you can find these cars relatively cheap.
 
bjwhite said:
Full engine out on my S4 Avant. Yes this is the BACK of the motor tucked up against the firewall.

View attachment 65921
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Oh my.....

Just curious BJ...did you do this yourself ? Were you able to pull just the engine...or does the tranny have to come out too ??

And looking at the pic.....with that timing chain layout....would it be possible to say change a head gasket with the engine still in the car ??

And gosh....all those tensioners and plastic guides look like trouble in waiting......
 
Longitudinal said:
"Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we must do that thing."

I just can't figure out what it was supposed to accomplish. And to make matters worth, the original followers are said to be prone to failure. This is why you can find these cars relatively cheap.
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It moved the CG 10mm rear-ward. That's all. 10 freaking mm
 
kmead said:
Give an engineer a problem to solve and they will.
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Engineering is a fascinating field to me. I like to say that engineering is one part physics and one part accounting. There are a lot of engineers in my circle of friends, mostly WE, but also ME and EE. The ones I know want to find the cleanest and simplest way to the finish line, taking into account the total cost of tooling, materials, and labor.

I cannot see the reasoning behind that timing layout. The rear of the engine solution is bad enough, but I'd bet that they could remove one or two chains from that situation with another five or ten minutes of thought. Maybe VAG bought a warehouse full of those chains and told the engineers that those were the chains that they had to work with. It's a mystery to me.
 
Longitudinal said:
Engineering is a fascinating field to me. I like to say that engineering is one part physics and one part accounting. There are a lot of engineers in my circle of friends, mostly WE, but also ME and EE. The ones I know want to find the cleanest and simplest way to the finish line, taking into account the total cost of tooling, materials, and labor.

I cannot see the reasoning behind that timing layout. The rear of the engine solution is bad enough, but I'd bet that they could remove one or two chains from that situation with another five or ten minutes of thought. Maybe VAG bought a warehouse full of those chains and told the engineers that those were the chains that they had to work with. It's a mystery to me.
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I don’t think you have met a German engineer, I have worked with more than a few and that timing chain arrangement doesn’t surprise me. Particularly for an Audi engineer…
 
It’s also possible that the design for manufacture and assembly team discovered they could do the engine build process faster and cheaper. There is a lot of design for manufacture activity that conflicts with design for maintenance and servicing.
 
kmead said:
I don’t think you have met a German engineer,
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No, I haven't. My friends are all American engineers.

On the subject of German engineers, they used to do better than this. Back in the dry timing belt days, which are nearly totally behind us now, the timing layouts were simple--even on multivalve engines. I think the VR is what changed everything. It was certainly going to need a chain just for the compactness of it compared to a belt. If you have ever seen the front end of the VR as installed in a MKIII or B3 Passat (or swapped into the nearly identical MKII engine bay,) you know that front-of-engine space is at a premium. MKII VR swaps sometimes need some percussive clearancing of the frame around the crank pulley. It's close. All of the same goes with the 07K I5 engine, also transversely mounted in cars designed for an inline 4. But the space argument doesn't apply as well to a V8 engine that was always going to be longitudinal.
 
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