86 1500, Mild Performance Build

Bumper shocks are heavy, and the big bolts thst hold them in... front are a bit of a PITA to access... but if you drop the radiator to get to them, you can then fit an alloy radiator (if it doesn't already have) and that also drops more weight.

If your counting pounds, I wonder what the difference in weight of the relative exhaust options is?

you would think a tubular header and custom system will win that contest.

If you ever get to take the trans out, lose weight from the flywheel.

Toyos probably weigh less than the federals too, and the cromodora's are already nice and light., but if you have them you might as well wear them out, and save that 2/300 a month budget for the tyres you really want (when you need them so they are nice and fresh)

is that 2000lbs with air conditioning and power windows stll fitted?

SteveC
 
fiatfactory said:
you can then fit an alloy radiator (if it doesn't already have) and that also drops more weight.

If your counting pounds, I wonder what the difference in weight of the relative exhaust options is?

If you ever get to take the trans out, lose weight from the flywheel.

Toyos probably weigh less than the federals too

is that 2000lbs with air conditioning and power windows stll fitted?
Click to expand...

- The radiator is newly refurbished but the aluminum is definately in the future.
- Supposedly the used exhaust I bought is 25 lbs. lighter. We'll see.
- Flywheel, yes.
- R888Rs and Nankang NS-2Rs are almost 2 lbs. heavier unfortunately.
- Ac/power windows; I figure 200-250 as a minimum even if they stay, it will depend on how far I take it so not sure yet. I would like to keep this one fairly streetable, I think. I'll have a different view tomorrow! I don't care about power windows but if this is my sort-of daily driver (aside from my Ford Ranger 4.0) it really gets hot and humid here in Georgia. I'm definately thinking of at least 20 whp? but the my other toy (Boxster) is going to be a very stripped and visceral toy so this X may stay more composed and civilised. Thanks for your feedback.
 
Last edited:
I would be keeping the A/C and power windows too if the car came with them, it does look like a nice example, and yes the PO was a little obsessive about some things (I mean that in a nice way) so it would be a shame to turn it into a full on street racer. But I do like the bumperless / fibre bumperette look and that's weight off the best places - weight off the ends has the biggest effect on lowering the PMOI - same with the exhaust and radiator.

2000lbs / 900kg and 100hp at the wheels is much more fun than standard, every kg less just gets more fun but creature comforts for a road car make it more enjoyable too and it's easy to add just a few more ponies to compensate, 100lbs of comfort means 5hp more is needed.

SteveC
 
I'm of the same opinion. Decide if it is to be a comfortable, usable/livable, driving car or a no compromise all out performance street racer. Then make the modifications accordingly. Trying to do both ends up with neither.

But I have to keep telling myself the same thing because the temptation to make it more fun (i.e. more performance by going lighter or by greater engine mods) keeps creeping in. Fortunately, like you, I have a second car that can be radically modified to become that ultra light/highly modified street fighter. So the best approach is to build two cars, one for each purpose, rather than trying to make one of them do everything.

Therefore one of mine retains the AC, full interior, soft suspension, and other conveniences, while the other gets completely hacked up and radically modified. But that's not to say the first one can't receive some custom work. So restyling of the body (including bumperless, spoilers, etc), wheels/tires, reasonably lowered ride height, restyling of some interior stuff, etc, can be done while still maintaining the functionality it needs - but give it some personalized touches.
 
Hasbro said:
kmead, and he is?....

I has happy
This is old news to everyone on here but I'm even loving the old stock suspension. It's so soft but it still works so well. I haven't had car tires any higher than 200 UTQG in 20 years, usually RA1s. The Federal SS 595s, with a UTQG of 460, feel like there's a layer of marshmellows for treads. "Sipey", if you will. You can literally bend the outer sipes down to the bottom of the channels! The dampers add more to the roll/tippy feel. But it works. I'm very tempted to throw the euro -35mm lowering springs (probably not much lower than the old stock springs anyway) on with the KYBs and thrash the Federals to death and then get R88rs and deal with the suspension then - spend the money initially on improving everything else. Whatchathink?

Spent some of the day pulling some weight. I don't have the spare so counted the jack and spare as 20 lbs. Sound about right? If so, I pulled 52 lbs., so say 50. Not counting the roof. So, it currently weighs 2160. Absolute maximum will be 2,000 lbs. I wish I could drive an early X to get a good feel for the weight difference.

What a great day.

View attachment 40263
Click to expand...
I planning on getting new Federals as well. It has KYB replacement struts but don’t know what springs it has. Can’t wait for spring to really enjoy the car. Your car looks super clean. I’m a bit envious.
 
RX1900 is the forum member, I believe he no longer has any but he is a resourceful individual and may have a line on more, it has been a few years since I bought them from him.

Given where you live I would keep the power windows and AC.

If you are looking for more power, higher compression and changing to a more modern injection system to allow a hotter cam would be a path to get more ponies to offset the creature comforts.

Keeping the front carpet will keep the interior of the trunk from getting dinged and scraped. I bet it weighs all of three pounds.
 
Currently down to 2,120 lbs.. 90 lbs. off so far. Pulled the front bumpers, 25 lbs. Haven't removed bumper shocks yet, should have about 50 more lbs. off later this week. I wonder if the washer fluid is included in the stock total? That's about ten lbs., smaller battery another 10 easy and exhaust (if -25 lbs) will bring it to 2,020. 2,000 will be easy even before engine cover, frunk and trunk lid. 1,950 will be no sweat but that'll be $1,000 right there. I could live with 1,950 and some more hp/torque (especially torque for street).

Steve, Dr Jeff, the ac isn't functioning but Tavalin did work on it a bit - it's holding pressure. I'll try to keep the ac and power windows. And everything I remove will be kept should I ever take it back to stock or could use some parts for another X. The Boxster can be my street rat, which should help save the provenance of the X.🇮🇹

Ryan, thanks, it does look pretty good thanks to Tavalin but it definately is a 35 year old car.
 
Last edited:
I think Fiat's definition of "curb weight" means full of all fluids, except fuel which has minimal fill (just with the 5 litre "reserve"), and with jack / spare / tools etc as the vehicle is supplied.

Removing weight from the ends is number one step, big improvements to the Polar Moment Of Inertia, and the big bonus is it's all reversible and you can fit it all back if you change your mind, you seem to have the storage space available... :)

Get all that done first before tackling any other suspension work, as you want to set up (align and spring rates) based on the actual weight as you'll be using it.

AC regas may be a good time to investigate a different AC compressor, more modern ones do a more efficient job, and are mostly lighter and smaller these days too.

You can very sucessfully change camber by slotting / enlarging the upper strut to hub mount hole, then set the car up on an alignment machine, and tack the fat washers you've put under the bolt head and the nut into place on the strut leg... for the cost of four high tensile bolts and 8 ground flat all around hardened washers.

I drill the upper hole to 14mm, that gives you about 1.5 degrees of available negative camber change. Head bolt washers will work in a pinch, but they are often made of powdered metal, so high quality industrial fasteners are what I use, they only need a couple of decent tacks to keep them from moving - ever.

The camber bolts are nice if your trying to straighten a car that's a little crooked, or want to try multiple settings. Yes there are good ones and crap ones and the ones RX100 had were good... hard to tell what your going to get online these days, the picture doesnt tell you a lot and the descriptions are often woeful.

SteveC
 
Last edited:
The Vic coilovers are obviously height adjustable but also have camber adjustment.

When I first built my ratX I removed the entire electrical harness, headlights, heater, wiper assembly, turn signals, bumpers, dash, etc. But then, I started adding things back. I reinstalled the heater since it extended my driving season back to 12 months (but I left the fan out), the wiper system but with just the driver's wiper Just in case I got caught out in a summer shower and I installed a pair of Hella fog lights to act as cheap headlights to get me home if I stayed too late somewhere but now used as daylight running lights. I made my own electrical harness to power all this.

The car is stupid, silly, loud and in your face. It is so much fun to drive that all I usually need is about 30 minutes in it to get a good mental laugh at myself. Every Honda Civic and WRC driver feels the need to loudly pass me. The NA Miata is for when I want to feel normal but that will probably be replaced with Project Spider next year.
 
Steve, I do have lots of storage but no garage at my house next door yet. I have a guy moving out of his unit that's next to my shop/unit that I will snag for myself but that just takes money off the top of the biz so it will be short time - they are in big demand and get rented in a day or two. I'll look into your notching the hub but go simple first as you suggested, get the weight off. And I would get a new ac compressor before even approaching the system. I'll replace anything and everything when it comes to ac.

Carl, the Toad (Boxster) does the same for me, 30 to 60 minutes at a time and I'm all smiles. But I will say I just bought that on impulse to have something cheap and running to play with. Never been a True Porsche fan and it's engineering is really quite annoying, no offense to Porchephiles. As a rat it's a blast and will be phenominal some day. But I already absolutely love the X.🥰 Regarding the wipers I will go to one wiper and the washer tank will take some time off, too. Would love to do the headlights similar to GregS', remove it's guts and use plexi. That's post 1,950 lbs..

20200810_164537.jpg


When Tavalin reads this I hope he doesn't have a heart attack. At least everything will be done to fruition and with quality so maybe he'll just cry for a while.
 
Last edited:
Hasbro said:
I'll look into your notching the hub
Click to expand...

you don't touch the cast iron hub, all I do is drill a 14mm hole thru the top strut to hub mount hole (the top hole in the "ears" on the strut tube)

Actually it's not 14mm, it's some imperial size thats slightly bigger (like 37/64 or something) and gives you about 1.1mm of (inward) movement... it will also give 1.1mm of outward (positive camber) movement, but for the front you dont want that.

yep, weight is the "enemy"

When my lemons build is finished I have anoher 1978 S1 chassis that I'll be doing a similar thing... my "Superleggera" / "Alleggerita" build, a lot of mechancal similarities to the lemons build, but will be road registered and complied, a lot like Greg's.

SteveC
 
I have a good nearly rust free ‘85 which would be a great candidate for what you are doing rather than taking this particular car down this road. It is my daily and would be happy to be taken down a very different road. No AC but does have power windows which wiegh more than the cables in a early door but not by much more than a conventional car’s winder mechanism.
 
Meh, it's just a car. A collection of metal, plastic, rubber. Not a living organism. Not of any real value. Cut it up if you want. That's what customs are all about.
But since you do have another car already getting cut up, don't leave yourself with no car to drive in the meantime.
 
^Haha, I've heard you say that before!

It's a public forum and I welcome the wisdom of the experience on here. Anything I do with this one should be remediable and I'll keep all original parts. However, the suspension needs upgrading, it weighs too much and/or needs more power; I really dislike the US everything that was done to it. In other words, an upgraded Euro version perhaps? There would be a lot more around if the gubmint (and Big Three?) had not interfered with this gem of a car. It will be a better Bertone when I'm "finished".
 
Hasbro, you bought the wrong car. Instead of turning this $10,000 original X1/9 into a $3000 rat rod why don't you tidy it up a bit and run it through Bring A trailer? There are tons of cheap, stripped X1/9's that have already had many of the upgrades you are contemplating spending retail money on. You can get that stuff for free. Think of all the additional cool mods you could do with that newly acquired racer X and a fat $10,000 cashier's check! That's K20 turnkey territory man!!!!
 
What qualifies as a 10K car? Unless I am missing something, with due respect to the p.o.'s hard work, I got a great deal but this isn't a 10K BAT car. I hope I'm wrong so please convince me!

edit; throw it at me and I'll play devil's advocate. If I am convinced I will reconsider my intentions.

X 12-22-20.jpg
 
Last edited:
The BAT site has all the previously sold X1/9's available to study. Just go to the magnifying glass at the top and search "X1/9". (I added a link below) There you can find all the detailed photos and participant comments of the cars that sold in the $9-11k range and compare it to yours. In real estate they call them "comparables". You will quickly understand what your car could be worth. You can also see where, if anyplace, you need to spend some time to get your car up to "sale ready" status. Just being clean makes the car more valuable. Tavelin likely did most of the hard dirty work already. Your car is every bit as good as Huey's that sold for $9,200 in September and he didn't even vacuum it! Clean, original cars are hard to find and going up FAST. Look at the trend graph.

Edit: We'd have to see the insides of the car to be sure but based on the picture you just posted it may go for more than $10k. The wheels alone add at least $1,000 and fuel injection is more desirable among collectors. Why not post some pics of the frunk, engine compartment, front rear spoiler area etc. This car looks very, very nice from 15 feet!

BAT X1/9 PAGE
 
Last edited:
Appreciate the feedback, haven't followed Xes on Bat in six or eight months as I considered them unobtanium and unrealistic for me, especially with the crazy used car market this year. The last one went for about 15k and it was impressive. From years of following Bat (loved their early years) I doubt this is up to their standards. I'll check them out and see what I think.

The pic above shows the car to it's best face but it has a lot of work to go imo to reach the restoration level I have seen many times on here or at shows. It's a fifteen footer, closer without a discerning eye. Probably the biggest hit would be is it's on it's third coat of paint and third color. Aside from that I would say it's 75% "restored" at best, all thanks to the p.o.. Personally, I would call this a nice driver that would be comfortable at a Cars and Coffee meet. Tavalin was very up front about it's condition, even overly critical in spite of his obvious love for the car. As mentioned before, I too, am falling fast for it. I'm pretty sure of it's street value but I'll look into it some more and get back to you. And really do appreciate the feedback so don't hold back.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top