Alternative gearbox for X1/9 from VW, Audi (WAG group)

Bjorn Nilson said:
It is 32mm to the top of the shaft.
Nighty night. Sleep well.
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Talked with Radics, he had absolutely same concerns that distance from input shaft to mounting surface is too big, if stock axles are used.
But said that everything appeared to be ok in the end. 👍
 
Janis said:
Talked with Radics, he had absolutely same concerns that distance from input shaft to mounting surface is too big, if stock axles are used.
But said that everything appeared to be ok in the end. 👍
Click to expand...
But that must also depend on flywheel and clutch? Are you going for X1/9 in this matter?
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
But that must also depend on flywheel and clutch? Are you going for X1/9 in this matter?
Click to expand...
He uses Punto GT flywheel and pressure plate and Golf 2 gti clutch disc.
I am going to use X19 1500 flywheel and pressure plate, and most likely same gti clutch disc.

Anyhow I am still not sure about that distance :D If will have enough time - will finish taking engine out this evening and do the measurements
 
By dimensions it look that 1.8t swap in X1/9, it is hard to redist now 😅
Base of the measurments are X axles.
Length if the engines is together with belt cover.
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Yes, the total length of the VW engine and box is probably ok, but what about the width? Looking at my Golf, these engines seem to be very wide and tall, but if a Busso V6 swap is possible this should work as well. A full swap may be easier than just swapping the gearbox.
What is the thing down to the left? Differential/stub shafts or a Turbo/downpipe?
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
Yes, the total length of the VW engine and box is probably ok, but what about the width? Looking at my Golf, these engines seem to be very wide and tall, but if a Busso V6 swap is possible this should work as well. A full swap may be easier than just swapping the gearbox.
What is the thing down to the left? Differential/stub shafts or a Turbo/downpipe?
Click to expand...
on the left is diff+stub axles 😅

here I took 1.8t engine dimensions
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So here are X19 gearbox’s center of holes and shafts coordinates, feel free to use if needed, or can ask for a CAD or STL or some other format.
These are also within 0.15mm tolerance.
Best way to read them would be with longer thin VERTICAL needle, and pinpoint into a ball which is droped into hole, if reflection is straight that means that coorfinates are even more acurate.

and again inpot shaft is X=0 Y=0

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Janis, I believe you are saying the size difference between the X and the VW engine/transmission is only 1mm, making the VW a good swap (complete VW engine and transmission)?

I agree with Bjorn that it seems best to swap the entire VW engine and gearbox than make the X engine fit the VW gearbox. However I understand practical considerations, like already having a built Fiat engine but needing a new gearbox, plus cost limitations, etc. So I can appreciate the desire to make the adapter. It might even be good for someone that is the opposite situation; needs a better engine but wants to retain the X gearbox.

As for the VW differential being 6mm wider, that is 3mm on each side if centered. I wonder if the stock X axles (CV joints, splined sections, hub/carrier mounting, etc) can tolerate that small difference without the need for much modification? Because with the VW having the same CVJ bolt pattern it would be very nice if that could be done, to use the stock X axles on the VW box.

I don't have a VW 1.8T on hand, but I do have a VW 1.8 (older version, non-turbo). And it is a very similar design to the X engine. Both have counter-flow heads with the intake/exhaust facing the rear of the vehicle. Both have the accessories (alternator, water pump, etc) facing the passenger (right) side of the car. Both have the distributor on the same side of the block. Both are single overhead cam with a generally similar head design (basic layout). And as Janis says both are very close in size. So I contend that swapping a VW engine and gearbox would be relatively easy...I think much easier than the Honda K's. The downside is that the VW block is cast iron (like the X), so no real weight savings there. But the two gearboxes are close in weight. The upside is the VW engine can easily make 300+ HP (and tons of torque) with no internal modifications (by adding a turbo), and it is significantly more reliable - even a boosted VW vs a stock X. Likewise the VW gearbox is also significantly more robust. The quality difference on both is shocking. So getting a engine/trans swap that is relatively easy (compared to some others), with more than 3-4 times the power, about the same weight, not overly expensive (again, compared to most others), and extremely reliable sounds like a good plan to me.

A while back I said similar things about doing a Honda "B" engine/trans swap (opposed to the Honda "K"). And the Honda is aluminum, so less weight. I still feel that way, however I've noticed Honda "B's" seem a bit difficult to source anymore. While the VW 1.8T is quite plentiful (still in production after decades). Furthermore the Honda requires custom or modified axles, which the VW does not. That alone makes the VW much less costly/easier. Depending on where you live and the market of available cheap cars, buying a complete running vehicle with the engine and gearbox you desire is the best approach in my opinion. That way you get pretty much everything you need to do the swap, plus you can determine the condition of the engine and box before buying.
 
I think it wont work on opposite way, Fiat box+1.8t in X engine bay, because right end of the engine will be 18mm more to the right and plus adapter plate, if nothing would be shaved from gearbox.
Stock X axles works, Radics still uses them in his X with VW box + Fiat engine.

1. I want to put 1.8t but certification costs could reach ~1.5k (it is still les than have spent in my engine 😂 ) if I knew this earlier..
2. I also want to make an adapter plate and shifter mechanism for cables as a plug and play set, that could be usefull for someone else, not because of money, but to make life easier
3. This adapter plate might also need certification, but it could slip through inspection without it
 
Good point about a opposite situation - Fiat box with VW engine. I missed that part of your diagram. ;)

And I'd forgotten about the certification process where you live. That certainly makes a big difference. Similar to where I used to live in the state of California, where the laws are pretty strict and doing swaps is difficult. I'm sure it would be much easier to do a gearbox swap unnoticed by the inspector than a engine swap. :D

Good to verify the VW box works directly with the X axles. That makes things MUCH easier (and affordable) to do. :) I may still consider swapping my extra VW engine and box into my other X some day. However mine are the earlier VW versions, so not cable shift, and not quite the same level of performance as the 1.8T and newer model box (but still much better than the X's).

The newer cable shift VW gearbox has been swapped into the older non-cable VWs by many people. There are even companies that make a bolt on kit to do it. Look for some of those examples for ideas on how to approach it. I'll see if I have any links to some (not sure).
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Good point about a opposite situation - Fiat box with VW engine. I missed that part of your diagram. ;)

And I'd forgotten about the certification process where you live. That certainly makes a big difference. Similar to where I used to live in the state of California, where the laws are pretty strict and doing swaps is difficult. I'm sure it would be much easier to do a gearbox swap unnoticed by the inspector than a engine swap. :D

Good to verify the VW box works directly with the X axles. That makes things MUCH easier (and affordable) to do. :) I may still consider swapping my extra VW engine and box into my other X some day. However mine are the earlier VW versions, so not cable shift, and not quite the same level of performance as the 1.8T and newer model box (but still much better than the X's).

The newer cable shift VW gearbox has been swapped into the older non-cable VWs by many people. There are even companies that make a bolt on kit to do it. Look for some of those examples for ideas on how to approach it. I'll see if I have any links to some (not sure).
Click to expand...
I have seen a lot of shifters and mechanisms for a few weeks 😅
Thanks.
started already to draw a 3D model for X
 
Janis, great work.
I hope this project works out.
This would be a great solution for X owners for when Fiat gearbox parts dry up (they are already way too expensive).
 
Cut a template from thin plate. Had few errors
Got new coordinates with ball and needle.
That satisfaction is better than drugs when go back to zero point and check that it is only 0.05mm off :D (I don’t do drugs)
From that I assume that all points should be within ~0.1mm tolerance
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