Camshaft Identification 4331512

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by B0b, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. B0b

    B0b Daily Driver

    Just got a new cam, a 4331512, I think.
    There doesn't seem to be any identifying marks - is there some way of identifying the cam without setting it up for detailed measurement?
    I know the base circle is hard to measure, but perhaps the dimension from the base to the tip of the lobe would be something I could use.
    Does anyone have that dimension?
    Thanks
     
  2. rx1900

    rx1900 1981 X1/9

    Hi Bob. Correct.....on Fiat OEM cams there never seems to be any part #s or identifying marks on the cam itself. Your best hope is that the cam - if new - is still in a sealed Fiat box with the part # on the box.

    You know there are MANY different OEM cams for this SOHC series of engines. From pretty mild to pretty wild......

    Of course the only sure way of determining the true lift and cam timing of any cam is by measuring it with a dial indicator and a degree wheel.

    However.....it has been said... that there is a fairly simple way of doing a quick check.

    The "wildest" factory cam is said to be a 1500 euro X1/9 cam. Fiat # 4333059. 24/68 with a 9.9mm lift. You cannot measure easily the base circle and lift of this cam - with calipers or vernier - as the ramp has already started if you try to simply measure across the side flanks. However...due to the high lift...if you simply measure with a vernier from base to nose...it will be about 37.9mm. No other stock OE cam will measure that large. And you have a winner !!!

    Similarly.....the next "wildest" OE cam is from an early euro 1300 X1/9 or 128 coupe. Fiat # 4331512. The one you hope you actually got. 24/68 with a 9.75mm lift. ..This will measure about 37.75mm from nose to base. No other stock OE cam will yield that measurement. You are still a winner !!!!

    EDIT !!! - after re-reading Steve's replies in the referenced thread - it appears there IS another stock cam that will measure 37.75mm. That would be an early euro 128 coupe 1100 that has a cam ( Fiat part # unknown ) 12/52 with 9.75 lift. Due to the timing, this cam will measure 28.0mm across the flanks. Whilst the 4331512 cam will measure about 28.35mm due to the ramps having already started. So...if you find a 37.75mm cam you would then have to measure across the flanks to determine if you indeed have a 4331512.

    Most other stock OE cams will yield that measurement of about 37.2mm or less. And you just got screwed.........

    I do not say all this from personal knowledge. I learned it from this thread:
    https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/euro-1500-cam.23605/#post-194754

    Good luck. Got your block back yet ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  3. B0b

    B0b Daily Driver

    Thanks, that is exactly what I need, and the numbers are what the new cam measures.
    So I am not feeling screwed.
    Sorry I didn't find the thread you mention.

    I get the block back this week, then begins a couple of dry assemblies to figure out what to do with the head.
     
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Just for clarity, the two measurements described for this "quick and dirty" identification would be "A" and "B" on this drawing?
    AnnotatedCamLobeSmall.jpg
     
  5. rx1900

    rx1900 1981 X1/9

    No Jeff - not quite.

    When i referred to the "flank measurement" - like 28.0 or 28.35mm - yes that would be the red B on your diagram.

    But my "nose to base" measurements ( like 37.9mm ) would be - in your diagram - from the very bottom of the cam to the very tip of the nose. so make that red A on your diagram go between the words " lobe lift" and "heel"

    Okay ??
     
  6. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Thanks, I'm sure it would have been obvious if I had a cam in hand and looked at some measurements.
     
  7. I happened to have access to a metal lathe when I measured my cam. I just chucked it up and used a dial indicator to do the measurements. I was thinking that you could easily do the same sort of thing using a cam box instead.
     
  8. B0b

    B0b Daily Driver

    Definitely, I think with the cam box inverted, and a bucket in place, using a dial indicator on the inside of the bucket.
     
  9. Eastep

    Eastep True Classic

    Location:
    PA
    Where did you source your cam from?
    Both of the 24/68 cams are great choices. The very slight difference in total lift of the 3059 vs the 1512, will not really be noticed. The duration of a cam affects performance more then total lift. That being said; the slightly higher lift of the later cam will flow <? Scavenge<? ... Move slightly more air.
    If you got a 24/68 cam and not a 12/52 "Euro cam", like nearly every one sold on eBay, then you will be alright. GL
     
  10. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Bob, this is how SteveC ("fiatfactory") did it:
    20190616_004138.jpg
     
  11. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Here are pics of a 4333059 cam I got from Henk, new old stock in the sealed original FIAT Ricambi box and anti-corrosion paper.

    The lobe measurement is as Doug mentioned, 37.91mm.
    It does have stampings on the non-pulley end, "FIAT" and "B698".

    20191205_201134.jpg 20191205_201155.jpg 20191205_201231.jpg 20191205_201239.jpg 20191205_201229.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    rx1900 likes this.
  12. B0b

    B0b Daily Driver

    Thanks for info.
    I need to spend some time cleaning off the ver yold cosmoline.
    Any tips?
     
  13. I used mineral spirits to get the excess cosmoline off my X when it was new - sloppy prep by there dealer. Fiat used lots of that stuff to keep the Russian steel from rusting on the way to the US.
     
  14. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Dan, that's really interesting. I don't think I've ever seen any ID markings on any Fiat cam. So it is great that some do, especially for a genuine Euro spec cam. I wonder how many of them had that marking? Maybe it was one of the latest manufactured ones for Euro stock replacements that they made. But good to know if a new one is found for sale then it might be marked like that to verify what it is. Assuming the "B698" only refers to that specific part number, which I assume it would.

    I was going to pull your leg and say I read where that number is actually for cheap knockoff cams from China. But I knew you wouldn't fall for it, especially with an item from Henk. :cool:
     
  15. rx1900

    rx1900 1981 X1/9

    Hey Dan. Thanks for posting that !!!! i've never seen reference to markings like that on an OEM cam. Great that we are still learning new stuff after all these years.

    Eastap - do your used 1500 euro cams have the same markings ?? I'm not doubting your used cams are indeed the same as Dan's 4333059. Just wondering if the markings are the same. Or did Fiat only bother to stamp those #s into the spare parts cams and not into the cams used in production ?

    Uncle Bob - any #s stamped into the end of your new cam ?
     
    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) likes this.
  16. Eastep

    Eastep True Classic

    Location:
    PA
     
  17. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I think Doug might be onto something, the rationale for stamping spare parts/replacement cams seems to be pretty good (the onesy-twosey nature of spare parts usage) compared to not-really-a-need-for-it when mass producing engines at the rate of hundreds per production shift.

    Or, whoever had the contract for FIAT to make the replacement cams in small contract batches might feel a need to mark the cams if for no other reason than their own in-house inventory control. IIRC I think Steve C. mentioned that Pittatore used to make some cams for FIAT...maybe the B698 is their internal number for that particular profile. Sort of fits with the Pittatore overall product numbering scheme that you see, a letter followed by three numerals.
     
    Dr.Jeff likes this.
  18. B0b

    B0b Daily Driver

    Uncle Bob - any #s stamped into the end of your new cam ?
    Nope, no marks on it at all.
     
  19. MikeHynes

    MikeHynes True Classic

    Location:
    Goodfield, IL.
    It's not uncommon for the production line to use parts manufactured by different companies than the service parts that are sold by the manufacturer's parts division. Hopefully they have identical specifications, but not always.
     
  20. ghostdancing

    ghostdancing True Classic

    Location:
    italy

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