Camshaft whistle issue

Yves said:
Jeff, when you said "Cam bearing issue" for what I know the Cam box don't have any bearing.
I have pull off the adjustable pulley and put my spare one, also inspect the the surface seal, no leak and no abnormality at first sight.

When you said "Cam bearing issue" it is necessary to replace the Cam Box ?
Click to expand...
You are correct, there are no actual bearings. I refer to the journals in the cam box as bearings. So if it is a bad bearing (journal) then you need to replace the cam box. Horrible design but it was fairly common practice back then.

Just to be clear I'm not saying it is a cam or bearing issue. But the noise seems similar to a bearing issue in general (any kind of bearing).
 
Ok there is a second video, I try to be more stable.

FYI, ascertainments.
  • The whistle/noise is only present when the engine reaches normal temp. (At cold no noise or really subtile)
  • If something rub why they rub only at normal temp?...
  • No rubber debris
  • The timing belt don't have any sign of rubbing or debris
Video Version 2.0
 
Yves said:
If something rub why they rub only at normal temp?
Click to expand...

Could be that the seal isn't getting lubed properly? Remove the oil cap when the engine is running - there's oil up there I hope!
Lastly - do you have a CDI ignition system by any chance? My Crane Hi-6R made a similar noise when the engine was warm but your video clearly makes it seem like it's coming from the cam - however, it sounds like the video is in stereo, and it sounds like it's coming from where the dizzy is in one of the shots.
Strange one! When you use the stethoscope, it does radiate into the headset? clearly? maybe make a vid with a long screwdriver butted up against the phone to pick up the sound?
 
That's not a seal "sqeak",,, certainly not the sound I've heard dry cam seals make.

I wouldn't describe it as a "whistle" either, that's more of a ringing sound to me... could be caused by a vibration / harmonic resonance

why it comes when the engine gets to operating temp... metals expand / clearances change / oil thins out

You have a cast iron camshaft rotating inside an aluminium housing, which have different rates of expansion.

SteveC
 
myronx19 said:
Could be that the seal isn't getting lubed properly? Remove the oil cap when the engine is running - there's oil up there I hope!
Lastly - do you have a CDI ignition system by any chance? My Crane Hi-6R made a similar noise when the engine was warm but your video clearly makes it seem like it's coming from the cam - however, it sounds like the video is in stereo, and it sounds like it's coming from where the dizzy is in one of the shots.
Strange one! When you use the stethoscope, it does radiate into the headset? clearly? maybe make a vid with a long screwdriver butted up against the phone to pick up the sound?
Click to expand...
I removed the oil cap and yes oil drop spill out.
No CDI ignition system.
No abnormal noise from dizzy
With the stethoscope with cone stick opening the noise can clearly eared from cam pulley or and from extremity of the cambox pulley side.
 
fiatfactory said:
That's not a seal "sqeak",,, certainly not the sound I've heard dry cam seals make.

I wouldn't describe it as a "whistle" either, that's more of a ringing sound to me... could be caused by a vibration / harmonic resonance

why it comes when the engine gets to operating temp... metals expand / clearances change / oil thins out

You have a cast iron camshaft rotating inside an aluminium housing, which have different rates of expansion.

SteveC
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Steve,
I agrree with you,

I'll find out when I winterize the car and remove the Cambox and inspect the camshaft and Cambox journals.
My feeling the issue is from Cambox journals and or Camshaft, we will see later at the end of November.
 
😱 I hate to day this, but it sounds exactly like something is being machined. Just like a head or block being decked. Hope that's not the case.
 
MikeHynes said:
😱 I hate to day this, but it sounds exactly like something is being machined. Just like a head or block being decked. Hope that's not the case.
Click to expand...
That's kind of what I meant by a bad bearing issue. I certainly hope it isn't, but best to rule that out before any additional running.
 
Something to note is that the pitch remained pretty much unaltered during the revs... really strange.


My water pump bearings made a similar sound at one point, but I'd be amazed if that was also the case here. It's hard to detect position in the video, but it sure did seem louder on the front of the engine. Hopefully not aux shaft related.
 
I have an 1300 timing belt tensioner bracket and a old 1300 timing belt tension bearing in my spare parts in good shape.
I verified what is the gap between the tensioner bracket and the outside of the timing belt tension bearing, to my surprise only have .007- .008 of gap.

It is possible with thermal expansion and tolerance of the bearing the external edge of the bearing rub the bracket?

Video of the gap

In november I will disassemble and be very attentive to verified if any trace of rubbing.
 
Jonohhh said:
Something to note is that the pitch remained pretty much unaltered during the revs... really strange.
Click to expand...

Jonohhh makes a very good point. The pitch of the noise is not relative to the engine speed, at least it doesn't sound that way in the video. Sometimes higher pitches can get drowned out though in noisy audio. I don't know what would make a noise like that unrelated to engine speed.

Another thought, I read you tried another adjustable cam gear. Have you tried a solid one? Is it possible there's some resonance in the multi part ones?
 
Jonohhh said:
Something to note is that the pitch remained pretty much unaltered during the revs... really strange.


My water pump bearings made a similar sound at one point, but I'd be amazed if that was also the case here. It's hard to detect position in the video, but it sure did seem louder on the front of the engine. Hopefully not aux shaft related.
Click to expand...
The water pump have be replace in June.
 
Kermit is in maintenance mode for Québec Winter!.
I have disassemble the cambox and inspect Camshaft, Cambox Tappet and the bucket.

What I have found, I have "Play" on journal, with my hand moving up down right left you can hear the tick noise.
The cam shaft is a regrind D223 camshaft with a shaved cambox.

Video -1
Video 2

I have found an Euro camshaft 4331512.
What I will do is replace with a good not shaved cambox and install the brand new Euro original camshaft 4331512.

I assume that will solve my issue.
To be follow.

Yves
 
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