I think I bought a lemon.....

Most of the major parts stores have compression testers as well as other automotive test and repair tools for loan.

If yours is suspected of being broken, pick up one at a part store before you start, that way you won't have to stop and rush out to get one while in a "PO'd" mood :)
 
Compression Question....

When I do the compression test after lunch, what kind of numbers should I see. My old compression tester measures in PSI. Should I expect 10#, 50#, 100#?? Just wondering what I should be expecting. Thanks....
 
It's been written here before, but the Readers Digest version is:

Do one round "dry" (no oil in cylinder);

Dry numbers should be in the 120-150 psi range;

If any hole is lower than 120, do one round "wet" (a squirt of engine oil in cylinder). The theory is that the oil will help to seal the rings better and if numbers come up better wet, it indicates rings are worn.


You are looking not only for the absolute numbers but consistency among the four, IOW, the cylinders should be within about 5-7% of each other.


So,
130-130-125-130 is good.
140-130-140-130 is good.
140-35-30-140 is bad.
 
compression...

Thanks... that's exactly the info I needed. I was thinking 140-150 based on the motorcycles, but wanted to be sure. I think the cam cover will be coming off soon.
 
Make sure the throttle plate is open

on all 4 cylinders tests. Then the starter motor is not fighting the partial manifold vacuum a closed throttle plate will produce. That will provide a more consistent reading.

Pete
 
Throttle plate....

I think I know what you mean, but can you tell me exactly how to do this? Knowing that I have to be in the car to crank her over. Thanks.
 
Press the gas pedal all the way down...

and the throttle plate will be open.

Compression tests are a lot easier with:

a. 2 people; or
b. a remote starter bumping switch

option b is not hard to rig up. Just run a momentary contact switch from the fat cable on the starter (which runs straight to the battery and has constant 12v) to the smaller terminal on the starter that triggers the starter.

If you are not in the car to press on the gas pedal, then you can just wire the throttle plate open.

Pete
 
Cam Pulley

WildWilly said:
The cam pulley bolt was not very tight at all, so I gave it a turn to tighten it up.
Click to expand...

Remember what rx1900 said about the dowel pin on the cam pulley. You have to remove the cam pulley to check the condition of the pin. Which means removing and replacing the timing belt (do not re-use a removed belt). If I may give you a to do list:

1. Compression test (120psi)
2. Cam & Valve inspection (remove cam box cover)
3. Cam pulley dowel pin inspection (remove timing belt).

One of these checks will locate the problem.

BTW, I turn the nut on the Crank Pulley (1-1/2'") to turn the motor.
 
NOTE: 1978 1300's got a new piston design that made them a non interference motor (assuming stock parts and head distances are the same after the rebuild).

Lets hope that is the case for you. As mentioed earlier, after you checked spark and fuel, do a compression check and confirm the timing belt marks are correct.
 
Not that I wanna insult you... but to be sure...

Pull all four plugs as well... and do a dry and wet test anyway and record both sets of numbers.
 
The Results Are In!!!!

Well, we have a better idea of what is going on..... and its bad. Warm up the popcorn!

Let's start with the compression test. We started on the flywheel side of the motor, cylinder #4. Took out the plug, put in the tester, cranked her over. 30psi, not good. Moving along to cylinder #3, same thing 30psi. On to #2, had to use the plug wrench and the ratchet just about all the way to the end. Weird. Got the plug out. BAM. Something has hit the plug. Bad news. Pictures below.....

http://diamondl.ca/fiat/engine/1.jpg
http://diamondl.ca/fiat/engine/2.jpg
http://diamondl.ca/fiat/engine/3.jpg
http://diamondl.ca/fiat/engine/4.jpg

Put in the compression tester just to check and 0psi. Removed the compression tester again and then put it back, turned her over. She brought up, would not turn over. Jacked up the rear passenger side of the car. Put her in 4th and tried turning the engine with the rear wheel, she goes so far and stops, go back the other way, so far and stops.

I suspect what has happened here is that the piston hit the plug and the small piece of metal was hanging off the plug. Removing the plug caused the small metal shard to fall off and into the cylinder. Managed to turn a few times until that piece of steel hit something and how we're stuck. There are also sections of the ceramic missing.

As far as I know there is no way for the valves to hit the plug, this has to be the piston. So how did I get home with the clunking sound? The piston must hit the plug with all our cranking and testing. There is no way I drove home on 3 cylinders.

After thinking and looking at the engine diagrams I'm thinking that its possible that the connecting rod assembly lower half came loose, that was my banging noise. Eventually with all the cranking, it finally let go and the piston went flying into the plug.

So I guess the question is what next? Do I take the engine out? Anyone have a motor for sale? Either way around, this is a big job. Maybe hojo (Andrew) is looking for a second job! So let's hear from you guys. Any and all advice appreciated. Feeling like crap at the moment. Thanks all.....

EDIT: Can a 1.5L engine and 5 speed be easily dropped in? There is one for sale near me.
 
WildWilly said:
YI thought, let me get a wrench and try and turn the pulley by putting a wrench on the cam pulley bolt....The cam pulley bolt was not very tight at all, so I gave it a turn to tighten it up.
Click to expand...
Do not not not turn the motor over with the cam pulley unless you're planning on replacing the belt (in your situation no harm is done because you won't be running the motor until you have a new and retensioned belt on the car). You're putting the strain on the wrong side of the belt and messing up the tension.

But being able to turn the nut is wrong and will explain a lot. There's no way that "not very tight" is right: bolt stretched, bolt inadequately torqued, something is wrong.
 
Me too, Sorry that is... I agree with Dan though...

The bottom ends of these engines are fairly robust... so lets go a step at a time.

Pull the head first, and hopefully it'll come off easily. If not... PAGE US HERE for the loan of a head-puller tool.

There will most likely be some valve damage with one or some broken, and MAYBE very little or some piston damage. Once the head is off you can then turn over the crank and see what's going on.

STOP and take fotos, some good close-ups as well as some a bit back for reference. I'm told "film" is cheap these days...

Then we can discuss where to go from here.

I see a "good" used 1500 and trans was listed for FREE in FS&W and something like that MAY just be a keen upgrade for you.

FYI, the engine and trans CAN be removed from the top biut they are MUCH easier to drop out the bottom. More details if and when needed.

Take a deep breath... hopefully this is your HOBBY CAR and have a DD to get to work and back. If not, go find a reasonable Honda Civic.

We're here to help bail you out... and do check here FIRST before you purchase ANYTHING. They don't call me Mr. Frugal for nuthin'... And they don't call Dan, Bob, Greg, Mike and Jeff... as well as several others, "Chronic-OCD-Infested and Wealthy SOBs" for nuthin' either!
 
Let's hope not! Ya don't haveta scare him like that!

Geez Dan...

HA!

Just what BOAT did that V-8 come out of and is that a FORD? The lifters look odd to me, never have I seen them staggered on a GM product unless this is a 348 or 409... which might make sense. I've never been into one of those mills...
 
Here we go....

So I guess the first step is to start taking her apart. Tonight I'll get the cam cover off, I've already had that off and it was easy. What's the next step after that? How do I actually get the cam tower (?) off. I'm hoping the whole engine doesn't have to come out. Just get the head off and see what happens from there. Hopefully, the bottom end is still ok but I guess its needs to be checked.
 
ildWilly said:
So I guess the question is what next? Do I take the engine out?
Click to expand...
Not yet. Pull the head first (the valve cover and the cambox will come off in the process) and see what you see. It's not like a piston should be able to hit a plug either... and a bent valve can hit a plug... hard to imagine a bottom end with stock parts allowing a piston to hit the plugs and still being able to turn.

EDIT: Can a 1.5L engine and 5 speed be easily dropped in? There is one for sale near me.
Click to expand...
Yes. Or you can go with the 1500 plus the 4-speed you have, which is easier and also a very satisfying setup (I have a 1500/5speed, a 1500/4speed, and a 1300/4speed among my drivers).
 
1500

The guys is asking $1,100 for the engine and trans, at least it looks like the trans is included. I'll start the teardown process and see how it goes.
 
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