New power plant has arrived/parts search

dherr said:
So I may have a line on a Busso motor and 5 speed transmission from a 164 Sport. So 200 HP and 189 ft-lbs torque, which is plenty for my needs. If this works out, I'll start my own thread, but will be watching this one closely as well. This will all go into my 77 Scorpion.
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There is a thread on XWeb that details the modifications required by Ken Haven. Notch drivers side frame and crossmember circular cutout for the front exhaust manifold/down pipe. I believe the thread was engine conversions
 
dherr said:
Thanks for sharing, now you all have me looking for a running manual transmission 164 :)
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+1 on the Alfa 164 V6 being a very cool swap. Mind you...there are many other more logical and practical and sensible swaps.....but.......

If ya want one...just come on up here.....
Funny story....there is a U Pull wrecking yard up here that every couple of months have a special day. You pay $65 Canadian (about $48 US) to enter...and you can leave with anything you can remove and carry out. The catch is that yeah - you have to carry everything out "in your hands". Which makes for some very entertaining viewing. I once watch one very large dude remove a Toyota Echo engine using mostly just a cordless sawsall. And yup.....he picked up the engine and carried it out.........

And yeah....that wreckers does indeed have an Alfa 164 in the yard.

So...start working out...... :rolleyes:

By the way......no there seem to be no X1/9s in the yard at present.....but when I was there in the fall they did have two Fiat 124 spiders...a '79ish 2.0 carbed and an '81ish 2.0 injected. Both looked to be stalled projects. One even had the tranny removed and sitting there on the front seat. And a 70's Saab 99 and a TR7. Was kinda fun just looking around...
 
rx1900 said:
+1 on the Alfa 164 V6 being a very cool swap. Mind you...there are many other more logical and practical and sensible swaps.....but.......
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Actually found a better solution, having one shipped to the door of my shop, complete with all accessories and the 5 speed transmission, but thanks for the offer!
 
dherr said:
Actually found a better solution, having one shipped to the door of my shop, complete with all accessories and the 5 speed transmission, but thanks for the offer!
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Got mine ready to work on, it's getting new cams, valvetrain, oilpump and a few other bits, should make around 265hp on e85
 

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dherr said:
Actually found a better solution, having one shipped to the door of my shop, complete with all accessories and the 5 speed transmission, but thanks for the offer!
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How do you plan to handle breaking with the heavier engine and transmission? I know most people use the whoa kit but won't you have to change axles? And if so why not go to 5x114 so you can run any wheel and brake that fits? I asked Bayless about it and they won't make their custom axles to adapt to other lug pattern
 
Lturner7 said:
How do you plan to handle breaking with the heavier engine and transmission? I know most people use the whoa kit but won't you have to change axles? And if so why not go to 5x114 so you can run any wheel and brake that fits? I asked Bayless about it and they won't make their custom axles to adapt to other lug pattern
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If you are ditching all the Scorpion garbage (bumpers, headlight motor and linkage, AC, emissions, ...the overall weight of the car would likely be less than a stock Scorpion,
 
NigelProdrive said:
If you are ditching all the Scorpion garbage (bumpers, headlight motor and linkage, AC, emissions, ...the overall weight of the car would likely be less than a stock Scorpion,
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It's not just the weight, more effective brakes will be needed to cope with double the horsepower of a stock Montecarlo (or triple that of the stock Scorpion).

I believe Ken went with stock Brembos from an Alfa Milano at all four corners, re-drilling the hubs for a 5x98 bolt pattern.

I would consider a comprehensive brake upgrade mandatory for 200+ hp. Woah brakes (Willwood fronts) are really only adequate for up to 130 hp or so.

All in my opinion!
 
All additional horsepower does is get you up to speed quicker. For a streetcar the limits of how fast you can go occur often. Braking from those speeds is on an entire different variable unless you are LFB or also on throttle to keep boost spooled. Few people brake while on the throttle. For a track car or if you intend to go canyon carving where you'll be able to achieve the high speeds available with additional HP and regularly going from high speeds into corners to prevent fade then yes, but don't see many people driving these 10/10ths.

The greatest variable in the performance equation is the driver. Next is traction. HP/acceleration, handling and braking rank down the list depending on the type of road/course and reducing the weight helps improve all 3. Track time to learn to carry the speed > more aggressive brakes than you need.
 
NigelProdrive said:
All additional horsepower does is get you up to speed quicker. For a streetcar the limits of how fast you can go occur often. Braking from those speeds is on an entire different variable unless you are LFB or also on throttle to keep boost spooled. Few people brake while on the throttle. For a track car or if you intend to go canyon carving where you'll be able to achieve the high speeds available with additional HP and regularly going from high speeds into corners to prevent fade then yes, but don't see many people driving these 10/10ths.

The greatest variable in the performance equation is the driver. Next is traction. HP/acceleration, handling and braking rank down the list depending on the type of road/course and reducing the weight helps improve all 3. Track time to learn to carry the speed > more aggressive brakes than you need.
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Mostly street stuff but I believe anytime you make a large jump in power you should upgrade the breaking system, especially given the state of the original brakes on this car. I may consider brembos or endless, mostly looking for into on if the whoa kit was any good and if anyone is running it with a comparable power level.
 
lanciahf said:
Anyone know what a k20 and trans weighs vs a Fiat twin cam and trans. Honda is probably lighter.
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Mine will weigh in at 613lbs because I have a k24a which weighs quite a bit since it's large and has dual vtech. I'll be using an x2m5 6 speed trans that weighs 200lbs. But I'm also ridding myself of the old loom, ac, front and rear bumpers, possibly the seats, and I'll be using a different intake and exhaust that should save a bit of weight as well.
 
NigelProdrive said:
I have the Whoa and works for me. I lift when I brake.

The more important factor is the tire contact patch area and compound tires.
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Any idea what the widest tires you can run on these? I plan on using either 15 or 16in wheels to make it a little easier to find good tires, 15x8s seem like they'd be good but I'm not sure there's enough room for it
 
Lturner7 said:
Any idea what the widest tires you can run on these? I plan on using either 15 or 16in wheels to make it a little easier to find good tires, 15x8s seem like they'd be good but I'm not sure there's enough room for it
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Can't say I know the largest. Also have learned tire sizes between manufacturers and types can vary widely. The most limiting factor is the factory rear spring perch. Grab a set of coil overs while you can which should allow more space back there.
 
NigelProdrive said:
Can't say I know the largest. Also have learned tire sizes between manufacturers and types can vary widely. The most limiting factor is the factory rear spring perch. Grab a set of coil overs while you can which should allow more space back there.
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Yup I'm gonna go with the konis unless there's a better option
 
Got a little work done on the k24 today, new cams and oilpump are on their way.

What are some options for new pedals? Took my pedal assembly out yesterday and it looks really rough, not sure if its worth saving or if theres other options out there

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